PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Doubt crystals are hex glycol. It’s used in biotech to crystallize protein and other macromolecules.
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This is sodium hypochlorite, chlorine bleach, at acid pH - drop the pH too low and you have chlorine gas. It’s very reactive. The articles claiming effect refer to NaCl/process “stabilized” hypochlorous acid.
There are products marketed with the technology. Here’s one, it “removes” bacteria. Don’t think that would stand up well to potential FDA scrutiny - or ethics of many.
ebay.com
Wound Therapy, Hypochlorous Acid Safely Removes Bacteria So Wounds Can Heal, 8 O | eBay
A safe alternative to chlorohexidine, alcohol, and harsh antiseptics. TARGET BACTERIA: SkinSmart targets the #1 problem in chronic wounds—bacteria. Safely remove bacteria without irritating skin or wounds, or interfering with your skin’s natural healing process.
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Preservation seems over the top for an anhydrous product.
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Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate - as 50% aq. solution ala Suttocide A. You’ll have a weakness vs fungi you may want to address and EDTA would be a good addition if your formula can take it..
Keep heat below 60C.
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Assume you’ve Phenonip or a similar preservation combination. This should be effective.
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Think you need a final formula, including preservative, before stability - unless you want to cycle mult. versions ands before expense of HRIPT. If it fails in PET fresh, it’ll be pointless to carry though stability - otherwise you may have a surprise with PET of 1st pull - a delay on product cycle. A new preservative system would prob have you repeat HRIPT.
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As ev noted, both have cap glycol and also include a lot of glycerine, maybe counting to some extent on Aw. What is packaging?
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This is BS!!
Search archive of posts. Better chance of death by meteorite.
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Parabens!
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Formulation has been reported to impact “effective” pKa of benzoic acid*, a phenomenon I’ve seen as efficacy in ~neutral pH shampoos.
*https://www.sofw.com/en/sofw-journal/articles-en/47-home-care/1703-enhancing-antimicrobial-efficacy-of-sodium-benzoate
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Like ZPT, that’s the basis for its efficacy. Yes, Fe saturated will screw it up. Why would you consider this?
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Storing bulk for an extended period is a stability complication as it’s different -volume/humidity/ temperature/container composition - vs finished packaged product. Ideally you would perform finished product stability using the old, aged-in-bulk product subsequently packed out for sale - not fresh as chemical changes started the moment product was made, not just when it went into final consumer package.
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3 weeks isn’t a useful period. The concept is borrowed from OTC drug reg and there the rule of thumb projects 1 year stability projected from appropriate testing (including challenge) of product after 3 months at 40-42C. https://www.chpa.org/public-policy-regulatory/voluntary-codes-guidelines/guideline-stability-testing-nonprescription-otc
I know some in the cosmetics industry have used 1 month 40-42 for 1 year and 3 months for 2 based on validation with their own data.
In any case, you mist still run stability qualification of real time aged products to confirm and have a plan to address (recall?) if failure observed in real time testing.
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3 weeks at 60C is BS. If that’s the only condition that causes the issue - then you have no issue. T
Some officious clown in your company has you guys wasting your time and energy for no benefit.
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Spot on. Many fungal treatments are based on siderophore - hydroxamate (ZPT) or hydroxamate like (Piroctone) structure. ZPT safety in use is partially due to its poor solubility - the highly soluble NaPT is fairly toxic. Mechanism is divalent cation binding that screws up functins like DNA synthesis and repair. Pharma mentions many other points.
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They clearly have no knowledge of the cosmetic industry - not ingredients, microbiology, preservatives, testing CIR, etc. They worked off MIC’s and hung efficacy confirmation on single applications in USP 51, but cut it back to only two of the bugs. No consideration of in-use or even understanding of the purpose of preservation.
They published a similar article in 2017 in the same journal claiming octyl gallate was the panacea.
Mentioned the 3G comedy as ongoing - when it closed out with failure years ago.
This kind of garbage adds fuel to the even more ignorant regulators and profoundly ignorant (esp. state) legislators giving us bans ala Wash state.
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3 weeks at 60C? This is excessive - relevance to real life long term aging is highly doubtful.
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good
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nominal 37% - an Aw prob. <0.9.
Does pantent mention preservation?
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how much water?
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Think you could do better than (just) organic acids - esp adding isothiazolinone esp. or even phenoxy
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If below was an accurate IPCS quote - think OP has a point. The question is not the component ingredient - but the combination. Happy to understand your evidence of “vigorous” (rigorous) efficacy or significant clinical testing of combinations. Think the cats and dogs combinations are marketing driven (esp. COSMOS, retailer priority list, clean beauty compliant). I doubt safety relies much more than established use/positive listing(even GRAS) and CIR/SCCP opinions re. components.
To the specific ECT question here - please note that supplier Lonza now Arxada claims “broad spectrum” through pH range of “3-8”. IPSC apparently questions the 2nd, and I’d not be confident of either. Many repackers add “natural”. In any case, I’d not use that combination alone as I doubt efficacy vs Gram negative bacteria, the primary group contaminating cosmetic. This was apparently OP’s observation.
My bias - teach preservation by addressing known efficacy of components rather accepting if not defending marketing stories of suppliers.
“You do understand that suppliers get their inputs and pH ranges by scientists who do vigorous testing on the ingredient. It isn’t just blindly advertised. Every ingredient undergoes significant clinical trials to ensure they are safe at a specific range as well as pH range. And any preservative can fail for a number of reasons, it doesn’t mean that the preservative is not broad spectrum. It means that the formulation has incompatibilities which is why the preservative is failing.”
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Heating to eliminate contamination? Micro stability derives from preservation - that is intended to protect consumer in use. Heating serves no purpose and could compromise the preservative.
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If you’re not worried about preservative/preservation, you’ve got more flexibility. You maybe looking at a consumer perception matter, the risk to your brand not consumer safety.
What stability parameters are you running?
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Can’t fix a micro problem, if that’s what it is. sorry, don’t have knowledge to address what it might be or a fix if just chemical.