PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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prob not preservation as ketchito suggests.
BD55 is DMDM Hydantoin - a formaldehyde releaser that should be good enough -limited activity vs fungi esp. mold is prob covered with surfactant. However , it should only be used in cosmetics. Household cleaners are regulated by EPA. If you’re in US, you need Arxada’s EPA registered version of DMDM Hydantoin - Dantogard.
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A simple search on Amazon will find plenty of dishwash “soap” products based on surfactants with eco-friendly/natural. enviro positioning - with and without sulfate.
e.g. Puracy line https://www.amazon.com/Puracy-Natural-Sulfate-Free-Dishwashing-Detergent/dp/B00HAPEXLK
its surfactant system - Lauryl/Myristyl Glucoside (Coconut Oil-Based Cleanser), Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine (Coconut-Based Cleanser), Sodium Lauroamphoacetate (Coconut Oil-Based Cleanser), Lauramine Oxide (Coconut-Based Cleanser),
You’ll have a very difficult time finding on Amazon or google one based on true soap - metallic salt of a fatty acid such as that from saponification of plant oils.
True soap was the basis for surfactant products (shampoos, dish and clothes wash products) until mid 20th century consumer switched en masse to then new synthetic surfactant products (Dreft for dishwasher - Dopal, Drell, Tide for other apps) based on absence of soap scum and reduced irritancy in use.
https://homegeargeek.com/who-invented-dishwashing-liquid/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwashing_liquid
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by
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Liquid. Assume hand dishwash?
eco-friendly is meaningless, you can say that about +/- anything. plant based - you could use plant based SLS Na lauryl sulfate. phosphate free - you’d have a difficult time finding a liquid hand dishwash product with phosphate.
Sulfate free - you can true some glucosides - decy l - amine oxides, etc. or a true soap-based product as Mike mentioned. For true soap, your consumer will have to deal with soap scum - esp. those consumers with hard water.
Automatics are tougher - esp. powders that often use phosphates to address hard water.
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Think the compounds are stable at temp - don’t know that extends to this formula.
One can do what they want for personal use - in any other context, this batch should be scrapped.
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You’ve confused phenylethyl alcohol with phenoxyethyl alcohol. - which are you using? Neither is sufficient and the former is not a good idea in any case
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to the chemistry, I found the primary formula variable controlling free formaldehyde was perfume.
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Sadly - I think the EU limit is 10 ppm so free formaldehyde per se is irrelevant- don’t use FA releasers in that regulatory climate.
FA releasers are also banned in Washington state. https://www.bdlaw.com/publications/washingtons-department-of-ecology-plans-to-ban-formaldehyde-releasers-from-cosmetics/
Ignorance is the only excuse.
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meant the cap and pent glycols
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What is formula, package and product? This would not be esp food in a shampoo.
Generally, Na benzoate is ok - glycols are too low and needs a chelator.
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Thanks Mark - sad to hear you’re retiring.
As you know, my career was largely with a company founded on soap. do not claim to be a soap maker but worked with some of the best. you don’t such technologists/artists now. I saw the transition from our trademark soap to synthetics - driven by FA irritation, soap scum and early syndet positioning in liquids, etc. Here, you can still find Ivory, Kirkland (classic), Fels, Amazon cats and dogs, etc. as much novelty than niche based on cost, nostalgia, perceptions of “natural” and purity - and with the granola crowd. Soap has significant presence in developing regions - again cost and ingredient supply limits for syndets.
I’m familiar with the cynical marketing BS of syndet “health issues”, “no soap scum” in a “soap” context - in an alleged good cause makes these no more credible. Add here “saponified plant oils” for marketing of a an obscure “global” product. We didn’t resort to the 1st two. Experience shampoo market shift from soap to synthetics decades before and understand consumers better than prob anyone.
Lastly - the OP asked after a gel dishwash. Suggesting soap when make the stuff is very far from trivial and with no one to train is pretty useless.
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perhaps this is a matter of semantics - think your philosophy may translate to hype.
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And how is OP to learn soap making - and why, it is poor surfactant technology that consumer have rejected. Philosophy? What “philosophy” do you perceive for Head & Shoulders, the best selling shampoo in the world?
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This is a synthetic surfactant based product.
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health issues - that’s more BS.
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Agree Mike - soap making is as much an art as a science/technology. This alone is a compelling reason why andy982183 should not pursue soap as basis for his product.
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Please Mike - the subject is technology/science of formulae , not your life story, ego and tiny, obscure brands.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by
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Good idea, if the science is beyond you,
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by
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Typos aside - the meaning is pretty clear.
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Thanks Mike - no technical definition. Please speak to science not ad speak.
Figure a guy selling a product sees no problem with it. The entire surfactant market was established 6853.s based soap scum that folks knew and now quite well.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by
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ecofriendly is subjective nontechnical ad-speak.
of course SLS can be plant based - C12 alkyl from coconut. Soap is more (meaningless) ecofriendly? How so?
synthetic surfactants were successful for one reason - no more soap scum “Saponified oils” = soap.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 9 months ago by
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Some have reported efficacy with benzoate/benzyl alcohol and with benzoate/sorbic combinations. But as graillotion commented, I do think you’ll find a Gram neg gap that you’ll need to address.
You might tell us pH, packaged and expecgted use.
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Thanks, I see. Suggest you let your challenge testing be guide. In that, don’t settle for the weak standards offered in methods - you should have no recovery of bacteria/candida at day 7 and some effective reduction in mold.
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If this is product of error in making, dump it. Not sure what you’d do with/learn from the stuff.
To the question:
PG, tocopherol and glycerol are not preservatives.
Sorbate and Benzyl alcohol are chemically and PE physically at risk. Magnitude begs pH, package and anticipated use but if an effect, prob only significant in longer term stability.
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Ok - and please, EDTA
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Think a formaldehyde releasers would be a better choice.