PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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All competent labs test for content before performing challenge testing.
Dip sticks are are poor - might tell you if the product is heavily contaminated - that your raw materials are foul, if you making hygiene is foul. They say nothing of preservative efficacy.
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mmatia is confusing content with challenge.
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The test kit tells you NOTHING regarding the preservative - or much else. It might tell you if you screwed up making the product - nothing more.
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Please stop this. Preservation is addressed by challenge testing - organisms are added to determine kill. tbhe test kit merely tries (and not adequately) to determine if your product is contaminated
Tnhe at home test is useless for preservation assessment and pretty poor for anything but perhaps water. -
formulation - and that is typically considred in a highly aqueous product context.
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Dip slides are poor - no neutralization of preservative, product obscuring potential growth and product has to be pretty bad for it to show growth. If you see contamination, it is a signal your prob should not be making cosmetics with your system. No growth is meaningless - you’ll still need to test at a qualified lab.
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None. You need to send it to a competent lab.
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Thanks Perry. Now I see!!
I emailed Tyger with the question. Will let you know what they say. -
Pharma - “natural” phenoxyethanol. Please elaborate.
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Honysuckle extract? Good grief.
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Pharma - not familair with the Velsan ether.
undecylenates - not much experience there. Think you know i’m an old tradtional guy so had a lot of preservastives focused on fungi. I do understand it’s more of a fungistat than -cide.
My biggest frustration is the great number of effectively useless combinations marketed as “broad spectrum”, wide pH range , “nartural, blah blah: set up to mislead well-intentioned folks like domicanica.
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I’d not use with sorbate. No purpose with two organic acids and the benzoic acid/surfactant phenomenon is not found with sorbic acid.
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Pharma - think useless as its too prone to pH (>7) and microbial esterases and it’s a common “preservative” in so many of the recalls in US. And it’s not that hot when it’s stable.
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Would never use spectrstat - combination of weak materials. Glyceryl caprylate is fairly useless.
In your context, use Nabenzoate - esp. in the body wash. The pH is ok and you’ll enjoy the surfactant-benzoic acid combined efficacy. You’ll still need something for Gram neg bacteria - maybe benzyl alcohol. Pent or Hex glycol may extend efficacy.And a chelator - esp. EDTA.
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And NO preservative is “broad spectrum” that is cynical supplier hype.
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The issue is that most here do not know if their preservative system works, even if they run challenge tests. Whether USP, EP, ASTM ISO, NONE is validated for either their primary purpose (in use protection) or manufacturing protection.
The only way to know for sure is in-use evaluation and challenge methods that attempt validation to in use risk.Such alternaitve systems are the clear problem children identified in recalls and by the US FDA as putting consumers at risk.
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what is your “policy” - preservatives you will and will not use
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Yes - and it is poor by design. What is your pH?
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Then use HDPE.
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Neither is very effective.
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Follow supplier’s choice for raw material storage. What are the drums - are they lined?
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Small mascara package with plastic brush inserted would be a much greater risk for preserative adsorption than a big shampoo bottle. But major manufacturers wouild addres both.
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I’m not with my colleague Abdukkah. You can not be sure the packages are “safe” unless you confirm and control the risk. That said, risk for Germall is low but, phenoxyethanol may be at risk. Package size is a critical factor.
Major guys conduct analysis of preservative in stability, and you should as well. I understand this may be too expensive for many - so look for precdent - similar products from major cosmetic guys - formula, package composition, esp. size, etc. -
Please pursue preservation as an affirmative effort. A lesser level of ethanol may be useful as a supportive element but don’t design your system around it.
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20% is the recognized target.