PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Testing is not enough. The USP51-types whatever the pass/fail are not validated to anything.
Every recalled product passed the test.
Folks should design a preservative system that should work and confirm it passes. -
As Perry said.
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Can’t answer that question but there are EDTA methods for determining hardness - perhaps execute with reverse intent.
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If Hydroxymethylglycinate has some antifungal efficacy, it’s not due to greater formaldehyde release. Glycinate derivatives can have chelation potential and fungi are more sensitive to chealtors than bacteria.
I’d still use an antifungal. -
Unlikely.
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@Cst4Ms4Tmps4
Not sure where you got your profile of “businesspeople”. Business models for P&G, Unilever, L’Oreal; Estee are not to sell less-than-perfect. Whereas claims range from puffery to validated, the elements under direct control - package design, preservation, safety, consistent/accurate production, stability, supply, even case stacking on pallets are executed in a prescribed manner for cost-sensitive efficiency.
Agree dyi-er’s will go broke for costs of safety testing alone. If there is less-than-perfect -the 1st place to look is dyi. -
I doubt that Dave Steinberg sees “over preservation” as a concern. Dave’s biggest concern has to do with loss of conventional preservatives.
https://www.happi.com/issues/2021-02-02/view_letter-to-the-editor/preservation-amp-cosmetics/?widget=listSection
Even if established, it would not be expected to provoke resistance - that would more likely derive from under preservation. If anything, the problem with preservation is under preservation - esp. with the “natural” hyped stuff.Preservatives will not help with water splashed from shower - whatever its pH. Addition of an antifungal may help with surface growth on humidified product.
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What is Plantaserve A?
If in US - be aware of https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2003/06/04/03-13751/skin-protectant-drug-products-for-over-the-counter-human-use-final-monograph
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pH of shower?
Spielberg? -
Free formaldehyde is somewhat formula dependent.
I’ve used 2500-2000 because it worked and was compliant in the formulas I addressed. We were aware of and controlled ingredient that impacted both efficacy and free formaldehyde -
Think you need something for fungi. Phenoxy/EHG prob not necessary
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@vince
For shampoo but too high for others. -
Sorbate is not enough of a preservative with or without gluconolactone. Please consider something more effective vs Gram negative bacteria.
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If you’re relying on glycerine to lower Aw - water activity - you should measure it to be confident it is low enough. As Paprik said , 40% glycerine will generally cover bacterial risk. To meet ISO and industry limits eliminating additional preservative - you’d need ~60% glycerine tho’ sugar might help effectively lowering Aw. Also be aware some products take up moisture in humid (esp. bathroom) environments.
Sephora is a retailer. Don’t look to those guys for your micro risk assessments. -
Na benzoate and EDTA with 9010 a good idea - but need to drop pH.
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Think it’s less the testing than design and operation of couple of DI tanks installed.
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See Purified water
https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/inspection-guides/high-purity-water-system-793Water systems are operated on alert and action limits rather than specs.
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“Made” anywhere does no exclude sourcing of (ridiculous) ingredients.
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@mikethair
pH 10 is not prohibitive. The recent recall of PineSol products (pH 10-11) is a recent example. https://pinesolrecall.com/?msclkid=7221f00cbb641775ef2b93631ee60e86&gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=dsContamination in liquid laundry (Tide), household cleaners as above and even bar soaps are additional examples.
Micro testing is often misdirected. Bugs growing at pH 10 may not grow on conventional media of +/- neutral pH. the Fabric softener Downy (acidic pH) includes a preservative to control a specific microbe that only grows at pH 5 and below and was missed for years by testing with conventional media.
Laundry and similar products use preservatives to control manufacturing contamination - they don’t worry about consumer use as bugs ok with the tough conditions aren’t usually found in households.
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@Graillotion - good point!
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Used pyrophosphate in cleaners
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Halomonas Nesterenkonia Bacillus are the genera whose species can grow in high pH products
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Don;t recall the specific phosphate but figure that’ll work.
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The same ones that grow in Liquid Tide. Odor, color and clarity compromised.
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To Graillotion’s point
Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi