PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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pH?
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Sorbic acid is common to both of these poor preservastive systems and has stability issues. Experienced some “petroleum” odor - tho’ not with immediate issues on addition. Try something withoiut the stuff.
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better get an IRB for that sandpaper clinical
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Certainly chemcial and physical stabiluty assessment but no challenge testing. Do not see antimicrobial preservative as useful. Might look at similar large company products marketed.
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I’ll just cut to the chase - if your water is just 1-2% in propylene glycol - you do not need a preservative. 86 the phenoxy/EHG.
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You have a valid concern. Can you say more about the solvent and 1% water??
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perhaps it needs a preservative.
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Do NOT trust your preservation to hydrosols - in whole or in part. If preservation is the only reason for their intended use - use is unreasonable.
These are not magic - they’re a mixture of unknown composition. To your question - you have no idea what’s in the stuff. From contaminants from production to pesticides from agriculture and most importantly the compounds putatively responsible for implied efficacy.
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CMI/MI products need to be rinsed off.
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Why 0.6% ethylhexyl glycerine? - You get it with Ashland’s PE 9010. Might increase 9010 a bit and add something for fungi and Gram + bacteria.
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Anecdotal reports may have confused irritation and sensitization. CIR reviews (RIPT and animal data) found neither to be a sensitizer.
https://cir-reports.cir-safety.org/view-attachment?id=3c317d65-8e74-ec11-8943-0022482f06a6
https://cir-reports.cir-safety.org/view-attachment?id=94742a1a-c561-614f-9f89-14ce58abfc0b
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This is not a miracle - it’s stabilized dilute chlorine bleach.
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60C for any period (4 weeks!) is a pointless stability condition that simulates nothing but gross product abuse.
Why do you think it important?
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Glycols have been used but can irritate
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Even with a relevant pH, think benzoate alone is a risky preservative system.
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CoA should come from your supplier based on what is and what they can detect and control.
As to threshold for benzoate complexation, what is hydrosol % in product?
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Thanks for clarification. Kinda doubt would be enough copper to screw up your benzoate. Look for the blue complex and precipitate.
Can you get your supplier to put Cu on CoA?
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I understand this stability slot is not your choice. Regret I have no solution for you other than its elimination.
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I meant nothing and only repeated what the CIR found and concluded. The studies they cite were unable to provoke sensitization by HRIPT.
Are you sure the alleged reports (can your offer citation?) do not address irritation?
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Sensitization aka allergic contact dermatitis.
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Nope - don’t know. Is this the only condition you see this issue?
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Good luck! Appreciate your concern for your customers safety.
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If it goes into solution. Sorry for one more - did we talk about benzoate earlier too?
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Gluconic acid isn’t that great. If you hold Phenoxy/EHG to 0.80% or less would you consider 0.1% EDTA? You’d still be 99% natural.
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Thanks Olivia. Your understanding is not uncommon but is profoundly inadequate. I don’t see a preservative in the formula you describe just above. Please add a chelator AND a preservative
Please understand “cosmetic assessors” are junior bureaucrats with little knowledge of cosmetic microbiology. The concept is a product of even more ignorant regulators, the folks who brought us the total BS of PAO. Assume they’ve given thumbs up based on some version of challenge - ISO, USP, EP - tests that are not validated in any context. They do show baseline efficacy that, with clean RM’s and sanitary manufacturing, can get clean product out the door. However, The primary purpose of cosmetic preservation is protection in use.
A 6 month sell by date is absolutely meaningless. Even if compliance (how is that enforced?), the consumer will have the product for more months, even years through which preservative stability must be maintained. Major manufacturers who validated their preservatives to in use risk establish stability for 3 years.
Please add a chelator AND a preservative