PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Might be related to micro contamination. If as it appears, benzoate is your only preservative, you’re clearly underpreserved.
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To your general concern, ask the supplier to share their stability data. To EDTA -an ex date is not very useful. The stuff is pretty damn stable.
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Can’t help re your inquiry - but why cottonwood sap? How did you decide it was safe in cosmetics?
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Assume the formula provided was not from ingredient label.
To the 1st question and with restraint - because the person making the change knows nothing of preservation.
SAP discontinued? If you meant manufacturing of the cartoon preservative Iscaguard SAP - it may be that the number of suckers in the industry was insufficient to make a profit.
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Be aware of the risk. The bacterium in question is endemic to the SE Asia, Japan, Australia - less common in Western hemisphere and was (maybe still is) designated a bacterial warfare agent.
cpsc.gov
Return product to Walmart for destruction and receive a full refund and $20 Walmart Gift Card. Consistent with CDC recommendations, consumers should immediately stop using the recalled aromatherapy room spray, double bag the bottle in clean, clear zip-top resealable bags, … Continue reading
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manufactured in India
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I‘ll add, presuming a short shelf life for any category of product is irresponsible. Hydrosols are not preservatives.
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If you’re in US, Saligard is neither legal nor esp. good for your application. Again in the US - regulations limit how much alcohol you can use.
To the “shelf life” - is the supplier stating their product is not chemically stable? Think they’re pulling that stuff out of their butt.
Wrong to add preservatives? This is an aerosol product that folks will inhale. It’s very wrong to risk their health with a poorly preserved product.
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Not much
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acid values? as in pH? What kind of cosmetics?
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Gluconate is a poor chelator, and you have gluconolactone that hydrolyzes to gluconic acid/gluconate. For a chealtor use EDTA, GLDA, phytic acid, etc..
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Prob not enough. At right pH, sorbate may not be needed but drop the gluconate.
As graillotion said - you need something for Gram negative bacteria - your greatest risk. Perhaps try phenoxyethanol.
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Let me explain my concerns. You marketed an unpreserved product in a very micro sensitive context and volunteered a novel concept - “shelf life” control/labeling/something as the critical quality parameter. I’ve not seen this in relevant experience in the global consumer product industry - and it appears to establish a finite period of quality that would not appear to consider/extend into consumer exposure. That regulators in your region haven’t exception is irrelevant - most anywhere have little to no real life experience/insight and those in your region, with exception of TGA, are not known for their expertise.
You volunteered it - so why would you not explain? Is this like your all-natural product that is less unnatural than other formulations or has the concept more substance?
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Sure Mike - no need to justify what appears to be more self-serving BS.
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but to what cosmetic benefit?
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As a scientist, could you be specific? What test(s), what period of “shelf life specified, what time distribution and retail management?
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This is a water bug along the lines of cepacia, Mike. Most likely from an out of control water system. A condition not isolated to India. There are irresponsible folks making products globally.
Again Mike - on what technical basis did you establish the brief “shelf life” date in your unpreserved product?
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Perhaps it’s not irresponsible. Assuming one knows the risk, I’d call it cynical marking to support a meaningless claim. I haven’t encountered many of this consequence that actually went to market in my career.
Cynical contrivance to excuse an unpreserved product with an irrelevant metric borrowed from cosmetics. The consumer does not control timing of warehousing, distribution and retail shelf life. I don’t know if labeling cites a date certain or a period, but the scenario offered relies on consumers compliance to toss a product when they 1) don’t expect such caution on products of this category and 2) do not comply even to cosmetics EX dates.
Waving “GMP’s” flag is pretty silly for an unpreserved susceptible household product- it has have limited to no relevance re. its micro contamination.
This is not a seat belt dynamic - where consumers make the affirmative decision of compliance.
Mike - to the technical point - what database established even this brief ex/self life date? Unpreserved products would seem to have no confident expectation of any uncontaminated period. Also, how much of the designated self life period is consumed by consumer gets the product?
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And not aware of a legal version or sorbate for US household products. Legal (EPA registered) benzoate can be obtained from Emerald Kamala (Lanxess).
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They should be with right pH. Added as salts. I prefer just benzoate - sorbic acid stability can be troublesome.
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Neither would be legal in US. Add alcohol think the limit is 5%- not enough on its own but it helps. Preserve with Dantogard +- DMDM hydantoin + IPBC - legal in this application. Some add phenoxy with the “solvent” excuse but it’s not thre best if you have freedom to use others.
https://www.azelisamericascase.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Dantogard-Plus-Liquid.-PDS.pdf
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If no water - as in none added and none in ingredients - doubt you need a preservative. You still need to test for content - numbers of microbes.
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Organic acid(s) prob ok for y/m. I’d also add a chelator?
Please challenge test.
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Can’t offer comment to that without context - product, pH, other preservatives.
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The thought for a shampoo. Do not use Kathon in leave on product like hair wax. What is formula - esp how much water