PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Think you’ve got yo work through an experimental process - 1st phase achieving a stable formula. next need establish preservative efficacy. I’m surprised the stability is such as issue with your formulas.
I wish folks could use single preservative chemicals but those are commodities with low margin commodity pricing so not as av in small quantities.. Proprietary blends warrant specialty pricing and are marketed in part for that but tossing in so much stuff risks stability problems and rarely are these actually “broad spectrum” through a wide pH range.
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Perhaps the issues are a result of concentrations and unnecessary complexity that distinguishes these commercial systems.
keep phenoxy at or less than 5000 ppm (perhaps EHG but 9010 separated), organic acid - esp. benzoate 3000 ppm (or try benzyl alcohol), EDTA.
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Why not add vitamin solution to water phase?
In addition to solubility concerns, be aware the premix with aqueous vitamin solution becomes a micro risk that will need preservation - chemical or temporal.
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Are the clays gamma’ed?
Think I’d add something for Gram negative bacteria - prob PE
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Separately and forgive me for changing the subject - this appears to be a drug product in US regulatory context. Assume you’re not selling in US.
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May be associated with sorbic acid stability. As ozgirl suggested, try a knockout protocol.
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Mike. Sorry it ended but quite a accomplishment and experience.
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Preservative system is pretty weak - esp. versus Gram negative bacteria. Risky as facial wash will bring exposure to tap water. Can you describe your packaging and QA/QC capability?
Why Gluconolactone? If for chelation, advise EDTA.
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Do not play with pH. Benzoate/sal acid preservation can be effective but is very very formula and pH sensitive. As ketckito said - you should represerve.
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Phenoxyethanol has very little sensitization risk, less than parabens, and parabens preservation can be effective. But risk assessments are based primarily on finished products, and Cetaphil folks have resources for a complete product risk assessment. Those not so well funded have relied on CIR and classic preservative combinations - notably without HRIPT.
Tho’ FDA is moving slowly, I think there will be an expectation of HRIPT for all cosmetic products.
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Dietary supplements not cosmetics
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Ingredient labeling compliance may be tough.
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Micro risk here is making and packing - formula, process design and raw material control. Cold process does not help. “Tested” by you or supplier. Water - to what level of detection.
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Prob came in with phenoxyethanol as e.g. PE 9010.
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As I said. The cosmetics industry is driven primarily by hype, not technology..
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This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by PhilGeis.
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This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by
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Good point but Geogard ECT is not broad spectrum - nominally a Gram negative gap. Have to wonder at Aw - and if you need a preservative.
However, discoloration develops at 50C - not likely a biological event.
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What are batch volumes and making periods?
Water. Do you make or is it supplied?
A and B are unpreserved. Keep those times brief - in any case < 4 hours. Aloe is often a problem - what info re. CoA and is it preserved?
Do you sanitize equipment before use and how?
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I’ll clarify - cap glycol is ok , even for Gram neg’s, but at higher levels than folks use. Could you add some phenoxyethanol?
With your packaging, you could live with your current system if you could ensure vs risk of Gram neg contamination in making. CoA’s delegate part of that responsibility to suppliers and I’m not sure you can be confident with water. Not knowing your hardware, cleaning and sanitization practices, process (any heat?) maybe some insurance.
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Thanks. Good for the packaging - what about your production? Do you test your raws or work off CoA’s? How good is your water.
Please do not accept preservative marketers’ BS as valid - “broad-spectrum, preservative-free blend based on caprylhydroxamic acid, ” is both grossly incorrect and unethical. Cap glycol./cap hydroxamate combination offers a major gap re Gram negative bacteria and you are including these for the sole purpose of preservation.
Gluconolactone is unstable and will break down in an aq. product. Your customer will experience its breakdown product gluconic acid, not gluconolactone.
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While esterases might generate C12 fatty acid in situ, I’d still not count on coconut oil for antifungal or antibacterial effect.
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Not sure what reactive means. Neogen/Biolumix level of detection is greater than what most folks use.
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why Biolumix?
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no - you can worry but can do nothing about it
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So you’ve no micro capability?