PhilGeis
Forum Replies Created
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Prob came in with phenoxyethanol as e.g. PE 9010.
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what is your process and package?
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In some contexts
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Magnolia bark - do not use.
One does not preserve the lipid phase - we preserve the water phase and the lipid-water interface.
Water in oil is a different micro risk. Generally, the bugs offered in use can’t find the water droplets to grow. Since preservatives are in the water phase, the same dynamic will male it difficult to pass an challenge test.
86 (with prejudice) the magnolia bark and add something for fungi. Do you have a chelator? Why must pH be ~7 rather than lower?
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Are you sure your H2O2 is stable? What %? Amine oxides have some activity.
Sales BS - “… Alkyl Polyglucoside “can be used to reduce or eliminate the use of traditional preservatives.”
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If you have stable 3% hydrogen peroxide, no preservative is needed. What is meant by ” 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (1% active)”?
Unless pH ~7, I’d not bother with a preservative challenge test. The bugs are so whimpy most unpreserved cleaners will pass without a problem.
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Folks need to make their products safe for any market. Good idea to combine.
Here, provide formulas including pH and forget the silly Leucidal . Can’t you find Benzoate without the added Neodefend garbage?
Based on what you have - 5000 ppm (0.5%) phenoxy (either Optiphen or 9010) and 3000 ppm (0.3%) benzoate (from Neodefend) and keep the pH at 6 or less. You need a chelator - the added stuff from Neodefend will not be enough.
As Mike said, prob don;t need a preservative for the bar and please confirm the rest with testing. If you can’t, make only for your own use.
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I’d put it on ingredient label. Why do you think it’s on so many shampoo labels?
e.g. it’s on the Pantene shampoo ingredient label with the explanation on P&G’s website ” An AHA that comes from citrus fruits. It is usually used as a helper ingredient to adjust the pH of the formula.’
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need formula parameters
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Through what period does this develop?
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If you’ve completed the stability series - hopefully though 3 years- not beyond change control.
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Not buying into the premise of hand made better - think that is very subjective and parochial consideration. The true “better” has to be in the mind of consumers.
However, understand there is a profound difference between what is effectively a hand made product and a product from mass, automated production.
The latter is going to be consistent, responsive to/constrained by extensive safety, quality and cost considerations and expanded in appeal by professional marketing.
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SOP or batch sheet - in a language operators understand. You do not want them making product from memory, even short term memory, so it has to be immediately available to the operator and simple enough to be followed with ease.
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how good are you raws - esp. water?
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Challenge test to see
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Lume (and its annoying inventor) claim low pH as mechanism for its efficacy.
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As my friend ketchito said, that is a weak system. How did you come up with it?
Need a primary - CMIT, PE or the like
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generally, no one preservative has sufficient broad spectrum efficacy and it’s more difficult for a bug to adapt to two preservatives
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“mm”? Any idea what those data mean? pH is a primary factor in hard surface product preservation.
You have 1%. Are you confident of stability?
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9010 and Optiphen are just phenoxy. Cap glycol EHG are both boosters vs Gram neg’s - not aware of diff for safety.
NeoDefend is BS. It’s just overpriced Na Benzoate - as its info says “Sodium benzoate is a preservative with bacteriostatic and fungistatic properties under acidic conditions (pH should be 6 or below). Calcium gluconate is added at a very low level as an inert flow agent.”. Gluconolactone is unstable and breaks to down to gluconate that’s already in the stuff.
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Excellent points. Products themselves may not have been tested on animals but as you said it’s hard to think safety of each ingredient was established without some animal testing - or perhaps safety hasn’t been established.
If you want to chase this claim, look for products from folks who have the cover of cruelty-free certifications. Saves time and you’ll have deniability
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phenoxy is soluble in water to ~2%
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Pretty weak system that would require protective packaging and high level of manufacturing hygiene attention. Has a real Gram neg weakness Gluconolactone breaks down to gluconic acid - think I’d use EDTA.
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I understand it works for you now. I offer the following from experience.
Allow me to clarify - this is your company culture - batch instructions, SOP’s, etc. are library documents. Operators own the batch and will resist the loss of authority if required to follow batch sheets/SOP’s for more complex products. They’ll train the next operator who will never bother with instructions. Efficiency, consistency and regulators will eventually require the sheet is in the operators hand as immediate direction to make.
Continue to grow, you may/prob will need to eliminate the cowboy operator. If one of the big guys buys in - it is a certainty. This will impact corp. moral as these are loyal and senior folks.
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Prob more in the document but responding to “Stir until combined” - in what equipment/at what speed/setting/how does an operator know what combined means? Undefined terms in SOP’s will be defined by the operator/modified by the new operator/modified by the next operator. Over simplified batch directions/SOP’s become irrelevant. No one will reads ’em - any of them.