OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
-
@ngarayeva001 - I’d say the only natural detergents are Saponins which can be isolated from a plant source. Glucosides have to be chemically reacted to produce them.
-
The active ingredients in a shampoo are primarily the detergents. You can provide some conditioning by using silicones like Dimethicone if formulated in a way such that it deposits on the hair during rinsing. Also, you can include cationic polymers which also deposit during rinsing.
Ingredients like oils, vitamins and humectants will do little for the hair from a shampoo and are only added in shampoos for label claims.
-
Alpha has an extra CH3 group where the gamma has an H.
I doubt there is any performance difference in a cosmetic.
-
Yes, you can use two preservative systems.
-
50C is not an unreasonable temperature for which to do stability. We went as high as 54C.
The problem with making decisions about samples stored at 50C is that you’re getting close to the melting point of some of the ingredients which can have effects on product stability that you would never see in real life. In this way, the 50C samples may not be usefully predictive of the future.
-
I haven’t seen any comparisons. In truth, I don’t think either are particularly good especially at the low levels found in most cosmetics.
-
It is probably being used as an emulsifier/solubilizer for a blend of ingredients.
-
I’d just like to reiterate that “safety ratings” are a fairy tale. Just because you only use ingredients with a safety rating < 3 does not mean your product is safe. Dose matters.
-
The CIR summary…
There is no such thing as an accurate “safety rating.” The ranking put out by the EWG is a fairy tale.If you are putting retinol in your skin product to stimulate cell growth, that would make it an illegal drug.
Here is an article relevant to vitamin A for treating skin. These authors find a benefit but they do not list what their vehicle comparison was so it doesn’t answer the obvious question…how does vitamin A compare to a standard lotion with Petrolatum, Glycerin, and mineral oil?
-
@Safaazul - you can think of spores as little tiny seeds. They stay dormant until they are put in the right conditions. Then they grow and grow. This is why you shouldn’t share makeup or other beauty products with other people. It’s teaming with your own body’s microbial spores.
-
@ngarayeva001 - I’m not sure the video shows that 2% makes it become pro-oxidant at room temperature. Unfortunately, they didn’t have a proper positive control in the demonstration. It would have been more conclusive if they showed what the formula would look like with 0% vitamin E.
-
But let’s get to panthenol. My evidence that it doesn’t do much is personally working with the ingredient and testing the ingredient at different levels in different formulas. In multiple, blind tested tress tests, salon tests, and consumer tests, I could not demonstrate that the ingredient had any benefit.
This is enough evidence for me.
Certainly, there are people (especially people who sell panthenol & products with panthenol in it) who can conduct lab tests and show there is some measurable difference. But I would argue two things…
1. These lab measured differences do not matter & can not be detected by consumers when they use the products.
2. These lab measurements are not science. These tests are done to prove something positive about the ingredient. This is how claims testing is done.
Unless research is done by someone who has no stake in the outcome & that research is repeated, there is no reason to take the research particularly seriously.
Also, people who write books & magazine articles are more inclined to write positive things about ingredients. Science journals are also more inclined to publish positive results than negative results.
The bottom line is be skeptical.
-
@Aziz - Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It is very difficult to know what to believe on the Internet.
So, I thought we could provide some tips to follow when you’re doing your own research on any beauty product topic.
1. Be humble about what you can learn. Real research is hard. There is a ton of information freely available on the Internet. Much of it is designed to get you to click on an ad or buy product. And the stuff that is interesting to read or understand is usually the less reliable. A 200 word blog post about Panthenol with a snappy headline is much easier to read than the 4-page, 2000+ word article filled with technical jargon in the “Analytica Chimica Acta with the title Direct determination of d-panthenol and salt of pantothenic acid in cosmetic and pharmaceutical preparations by differential pulse voltammetry” Real research means reading & understanding technical literature about studies that have been done. Your average beauty blogger, Instagram expert, or brand owner is not up to the task. Often, cosmetic chemists aren’t even up to it.
2. Look for reasonable experts and sources. First, ask yourself does the person sharing the information have a background that makes them a reasonable expert? I remember reading the book Skinny Bitch and was not terribly impressed with the information because it sounded dubious. Then I saw it was co-written by a former model & former modeling agent. And I just thought, Why would anyone seriously take diet & nutrition advice from people who have no background in the subject? I understand that the book was entertaining but these are not the kind of experts you should be looking to for education about the subject.
And in the beauty industry, people can be experts in product usage but that doesn’t make them experts in the chemistry or science of a product. I would take the advice from beauty bloggers about products and their experience and whether they liked using them or even how the products worked for them. But I wouldn’t take seriously anything that a non-scientist was saying about the safety of products. Especially if what they are saying goes against the general consensus of the scientific community.
3. Look for unbiased experts. Alright, when you’re researching even if you find a reasonable expert, they might not be telling you the whole truth. When someone works for a beauty company, they can’t be completely open with what they communicate to consumers. Often, to keep their jobs, they’ll have to shade the truth a bit to make competitor’s look bad and give you a reason to use their products. And some of them will just downright pass along wrong information. I once published an open letter to cosmetic chemists asking them to stop doing that! Still, I see chemists or dermatologists starting brands or working for brands where they pass off BS information about product safety or about how well a product will work or not. When an expert is working for a brand, be highly skeptical of what they are telling you. This is true whenever someone will gain financially from getting you to believe something, That doesn’t mean they’re lying, just remain suspicious.
4. Watch out for ideologues. Ideologues are people or groups who approach a subject with a biased agenda. For example, when someone calls themselves a “natural or organic formulator” the information they provide about ingredients and products will not be wholly reliable. They’ll exaggerate fears and ingredient benefits that will convince you to come to their way of belief. Usually, this means you’ll be paying more for products that don’t work as well.
And consumer watchdog groups like the Environmental Working Group are similarly not always reliable. They are only necessary if they can keep consumers concerned about products. And they don’t mind misleading people if it keeps you scared.
5. Be open to new evidence. It’s easy to be fooled. And it’s easy to develop beliefs that are mistaken. For example, if you’ve come to believe that natural cosmetic products are better for you or safer for you, you’ve been fooled. There is zero evidence for this. In fact, there is more evidence that they are less safe than that they are safer. You must always remain open to the possibility that new information will change your mind about a subject.
In 2005 when information came out about parabens and a potential connection with breast cancer and hormone disruption, it was reasonable for people to worry about that in their cosmetics. But in the subsequent years with more research and the reports by experts who say parabens in cosmetics are perfectly safe, it is not reasonable to continue to be afraid of them. It is not reasonable to avoid a product just because it contains a paraben. When new information comes to light, be open to changing your mind.
So there you have it, when doing your own research on any topic remember
1. Be humble because research is hard
2. Look for real experts who have a background in the subject
3. Look for unbiased experts who aren’t trying to sell you something (most important)
4. Watch out for ideologues who are pushing a biased agenda.Finally,
5. Always remain open to changing your mind if the evidence is good enough.Hopefully, that will help you in your quest to do your own research.
-
Are you using the same press?
-
“Too much” is really defined by you. But I would say you’ve used too much when it too significantly negatively affects…
1. Foam
2. Feel
3. Hair volume
4. Stability
5. CostI’d add that if you can’t tell a difference between 1.5% and 2% then you are better off choosing 1.5%
-
@Aziz - Anyone can write anything about anything on the Internet. Just because healthyhairplus.com says panthenol does something doesn’t make that true. Especially since they assert claims and provide zero scientific evidence.
I know panthenol is a popular ingredient and brands like Pantene make a big deal of it being in their formula. But the reality is there is scant evidence that panthenol provides any measurable benefit to hair. I’ve personally evaluated it in formulas and on tresses and never found any benefit.
Additionally, it is water soluble so when you put it in a shampoo it rinses down the drain. The only reason to add it to shampoo is as a feature ingredient to support a story. If you want shine and detangling, panthenol will not help.
-
Yes, it’s due to the speed at which you cool the formula. Or maybe there is air trapped in it. What are you using to mix it?
-
If the purpose of you adding Vitamin C is to up-regulate genes to affect collagen production, then YES you would be making an illegal drug. Whether you make claims about that or not wouldn’t matter.
If you have some other purpose for adding vitamin C to your formula & don’t make any drug claims, then it’s likely a cosmetic.
-
To determine shelf life you have to conduct a stability test and microbial challenge test.
-
All sunscreen products in the US are drug products.
-
@Lady_B - indeed SLS can be shown to be more irritating. However, the claims that people make to “avoid sulfates” is not focused on irritation. They specifically say that it is bad for hair.
Thanks for the article link. For anyone who is curious, here is the full paper.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/olk1idrzhlnzy96/surfactant-irritation.pdf?dl=0 -
Why so many ingredients? sigh.
I say get rid of everything from Phase C (except the preservative), dump the tocopherol from Phase B, up the Cetyl Alcohol to at least 2.0g and see what you get.
Every extra ingredient you add increases the chance you’re going to have an unstable formula. Once you can make a stable formula, then you can start added the less critical “goodies.”
See this post about minimalist formulating
-
Third, (at least in the US) they are illegal.
-
The answer depends on what you mean by “effective.” Just splashing water on your face might remove the feeling of daily grime. A little surfactant may remove a little dirt. Certainly 3-4% would have some effect. I’d think even 1% might.
-
I’m curious, what do the terpenes do for the hair?