OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Cationic surfactants (positively charged) will interact with the Anionic surfactants (negatively charged) and in many cases combine to form a salt. This salt is typically insoluble and it will fall out of solution. The formula will separate.
No, it will not condition hair.
In general you do not combine anionic and cationic surfactants. Cationic polymers do not interact in the same way because they are longer molecules which don’t form salts with anionic surfactants.
Cleansers use anionic surfactants
Conditioners use cationic surfactants
Typically, the two are not mixed. -
Cationic surfactants don’t work in anionic shampoos. So, there is only disadvantages.
If you want conditioning, you have to use a cationic polymer.
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This is a good illustration of the fact that just because a supplier says an ingredient will do something, doesn’t mean that it will do that thing in your formulation. - stay skeptical
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Polyquaternium-10 or Polyquaternium-7 or use another version of Guar (e.g. Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride).
Guar is not an ingredient that normally causes problems of build-up.
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If you are going to try to use the ingredients in products for commercial sale, I would not recommend making your own raw materials. You have to be able to prove your products are safe. That means you have to do safety testing. Your hydrosols are not an ingredient that has already been reviewed for safety by the CIR, so you may have to do a number of tests that a raw material supplier will have already done.
Unless you’re in the business of selling hydrosols as raw materials, it doesn’t make sense to make your own.
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To get helpful answers you should list specifically what is in your formula.
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The supplier claims it is a preservative. I don’t believe it and wouldn’t rely on it for any product I formulated.
https://www.in-cosmetics.com/__novadocuments/545446?v=636826498650330000 -
Whether you use a high amount of a botanical extract or a low amount of a botanical extract really makes no difference. You will not see any difference in performance.
So, a versatile botanical extract concentration would be 0.01% (in the final formula).
With almost no exceptions, botanical extracts have no impact on product performance. They are added by companies to support their marketing story. They don’t actually do anything.
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They are in there to make it easier for the product to be rinsed out.
Or it may be in there as a solubilizer for one of the ingredients.
Or it may be in there as a raw material blend which makes it easier for the supplier to produce the raw material. -
@Pattsi - Olaplex - They claim to have a molecule that can better reform broken disulfide bonds in the hair. I’m not impressed & don’t think consumers get much additional benefit by using it over standard treatments.
They do have an impressive marketing machine though. They have done an excellent job of convincing people that their product & technology is special. And that is more important than whether the technology is actually special. I don’t think it is, but I’m not their target market.
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You can’t. Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine is a cationic surfactant and you have to melt it to get it to disperse in water. It also isn’t a suitable substitute for catinoic guar.
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@Pharma - correct. While it is not illegal to use turmeric in your formula, it would be illegal if you are using it to specifically modify the color of your formula. See this article for a list of approved natural cosmetic colorants.
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I’m stumped. There is no reason I can think that it would cool down so fast. You’ve doubled the volume so maybe your heating set-up is not suitable to accommodate the increased volume? But it shouldn’t cool down that quickly either. Maybe @chemicalmatt might have an idea.
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This, like pretty much all other extracts, is put in the formula strictly for label appeal. There is no way there is enough Bromelain in the extract to have any effect. Extracts are also made by removing a portion of the plant material then diluting it with a solvent. So, even after taking a concentration of the extract that is too low to have an effect, they dilute it even further.
This doesn’t even get into the notion that the enzyme breaks down over time.
All that is to say, this is a claims ingredient, nothing else.
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It’s not going to do much so I’d use 0.1% (or less). It’s oil soluble so put it in the oil phase.
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@lushderma - I’d suggest you start a new discussion. Click the button on the right column to do that.
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Glycerin. Price, compatibility, effectiveness…it’s hard to beat.
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Preservative regulations are set based on the total amount in a formula. It doesn’t matter if you add the preservative by itself or if it comes in a blend. If you get 0.45% phenoxyethanol from the blend, you could still add 0.55% more phenoxyethanol by itself.
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Could you describe your set-up more?
Are you mixing the phases while you are heating them? If not, it’s possible that the oil phase is not equally heated throughout.
What type of mixers are you using?
Also, the thermal gun is not as accurate as a temperature probe you put into the system. It may not have dropped that much.
Finally, PVP should be added to your water phase.
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@LincsChemist - Great point. lol! I hope this isn’t a formula someone bought.
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J&J was getting out of the business and Unilever was revamping their Fair & Lovely brand too. I wonder whether these moves will decrease the desire to purchase these products. Or it could just lead to a black market of more dangerous products.
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With a flavoring ingredient it appears to maybe be some lip product? I dunno either.
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@esthetician922 - you might find this discussion thread interesting.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/7515/were-parabens-falsely-demonized-for-use-in-cosmetics-skincare#latest -
@Belassi - indeed, that plan makes sense for everyone.
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This is an excellent question. It’s one that everyone who has dreams of starting their own line should ask themselves.
My resounding answer to whether you should launch a product line is YES* (with caveats).
If you really have a passion about helping people solve beauty problems, expressing your own creativity, learning how to market & sell products, and running a business, starting a cosmetic line is a great business. It can be highly profitable, they are products that get used up so there is a lot of repeat buying, and people are always looking for something new. There are a lot of pluses.
To your specific points…
1. Yes, it’s flooded but brands like Drunk Elephant & Kylie Cosmetics prove it can be done. And they demonstrate you don’t need any special technology to launch a successful line. In fact, the vast majority of brands do not have any special technology that couldn’t easily be duplicated by a big company (Olaplex included). To gain market share and survive you have to find your audience & sell them products that they want.
2. Yes, duplicating someone else’s product is simple. That’s why your products & how well they perform is less important than your brand and your brand story. I could easily make a product that performs exactly as good as this $235 La Mer eye cream and sell it for $10 or $20 or $50. But La Mer isn’t worried about people who could exactly copy their formulas. That’s because consumers buy cosmetics primarily due to the brand & brand identity. Consumers become part of the La Mer tribe. Once they identify as a member of the La Mer tribe, they are not going to readily switch to something else. If product performance was most important the only shampoo anyone would buy is Suave or VO5. People buy products for the brand and a sense of identity, not for the formulas.
3. You’re selling the brand & the brand story. Yes, you’re selling convenience and you’re selling functional products, but mostly you’re selling an experience, and hope and aspiration. You’re selling a vision that people have of themselves and your product with its fragrance and color and packaging and story and price, all contribute to a consumer’s sense of what they can be. You’re not selling products, you’re selling dreams. And this is something that can’t easily be duplicated.4. You should not spend a lot of money to launch a brand. Unless you are a giant corporation or have money to burn, you would be out of your mind to launch with a 100K - 500K budget. $10,000 is plenty of money to start a cosmetic line. Especially in the Internet age. You just have to know how to start.
Here’s a plan I would follow if I were launching a product line.Best plan
A. Identify a consumer who you want to sell products to - (preferably a consumer with money to spend)
B. Figure out what beauty problems they have
C. Create products that solve those beauty problems
D. Build a “tribe” of loyal followers and sell them those productsAlternative (harder) plan
A. Create a product that solves some problem better than something else on the market
B. Identify consumer who already buy the existing product & sell them your better product.With the Internet and search engines and social media, it’s still rather cheap and easy to build an audience. Once you have a following, you can create products that they want and build yourself a nice business. I have an email list of over 50,000 people on Chemists Corner. To build that I have spent exactly $0 in advertising. You don’t need to spend a lot in advertising to build a customer base.
Now, you might be thinking if it is so easy why don’t I have a product line.
Well, that’s because I have a hard time telling a marketing story that would set my product apart. I would have a hard time trying to convince someone to buy my excellent product when I know that they can spend a lot less money and get their problem solved by someone else’s excellent product. In truth, I’m not a great salesperson. I believe scientists in general have this problem.
But as long as you don’t mind buying into a story, there is still lots of opportunities to launch a beauty product line.