OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Welcome to the group. We have a few hairstylists here.
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Hello
See our post on tips for asking questions to get more responses. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/1070/rules-for-requesting-formulating-advice-help
This is a cosmetic formulating forum and when you put the subject “dishwashing liquid” you aren’t going to get a lot of interest.
To optimize your formula you should do a knockout experiment.
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The answer depends on what your goal is. Do you want to learn how to make them for yourself? Are you interested in starting your own line? Do you want to get a job in the cosmetic industry?
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Change “game publishers” to “cosmetic makers” and you’d have pretty much the same article. I like that they quoted Mary Kay.
“Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who implement them are priceless.”
-Mary Kay Cosmetics founder Mary Kay Ash -
There are NO chemists that are HIGHLY SUGGESTED on this site. We have a discussion thread where people who offer formulation services can list their contact information. This is not an endorsement of anyone. It is up to you to interview the people listed and decide for yourself if you want to work with them.
For the rest here is some advice.1. Professional chemists get contacted by people with “revolutionary” and “unique” cosmetic and personal care products all the time. Unless you have a patent, your idea is not unique. Even then it is probably not unique but at least you’ve done enough testing to convince the patent office it is unique.2. Professional chemists do not work for free. They aren’t going to create products for you unless you guarantee payment. The vast majority of people who contact professional chemists with ideas do not have enough money to pay a chemist to make a product happen. If you don’t have money (at least a few thousand dollars to start) no one will really want to work with you. It takes time, equipment, and expertise to turn an idea into a finished cosmetic product. This is not not given away for free.3. Most cosmetic chemists spend their time working in the lab. They do not spend their time working on social media, websites, and taking pictures of how great their lab is. If you want to work with a lab that has enough money and time to do all that stuff, then you probably don’t have enough money to work with them. Those labs work with companies like P&G and Unilever and get top dollar for projects. They aren’t going to take on ideas from lone inventors with little capital to spend.4. Most of the best chemists have more work than they need. Unless you are a particularly good client who can pay a lot of money and are flexible with time lines, the best formulators won’t want to work with you. Professional formulators need to make money to survive. That is more important than the nobel goal of helping people realize their dream of creating their new cosmetic product. That’s not to say that chemists don’t help people realize their dreams, but if the chemist isn’t taking on jobs that pay money, they aren’t able to realize their own dream of being a success formulator.Advice…If you want to find a chemist to work with who will help you get your project completed here are some things you can try.1. Tell them up front how much money you can spend. If you have $100 for your project, don’t expect anyone to answer. If you have $5000 for the project…you’ll get more answers. If you have $10,000 or more, then most people will respond.2. Get rid of your pre-conceived “restrictions”. The best formulators are people who have worked in the cosmetic industry for decades. They have spent that time learning how to create formulations. They haven’t spent their time learning about social media and creating professional websites meant to impress people. Maybe in 10 or 15 years your requirements will be more reasonable but right now, they are not realistic.3. Go to a private labeler and get your product made. Your idea probably can be accomplished using a private labeler. It’s unlikely you’ll need a custom formula. Launch your product with stock formulas, build your brand, and when you have enough money and feedback from actual customers, then find a chemist who can make custom formulas for you.The bottom line is that chemists will not take you serious unless you have a reasonable budget for the product and are willing to spend money. If you do, tell that to people when you contact them. This will increase your chances that they will want to work with you.Hope that helps and good luckPerry, 44 -
Shelf life for most liquid materials would be about 1 year. Solid materials may be longer but 1 year is pretty much the standard for ingredients.
There are a few online sources that do small amounts of materials but not many. http://makingcosmetics.com is an example. There may be some distributors who could get small amounts for people too. -
The answer depends on what ingredients are in your formula so it’s difficult to give you an exact chemical reaction that an antioxidant is supposed to prevent. I think you’ll find in cosmetic chemistry that practices are derived more through empirical knowledge than from theoretical pondering.
The reason that antioxidants are added to cosmetics is because they prevent things like color changes and odor changes.Rather than figure out exactly why any specific antioxidant works a cosmetic formulator will figure that if there is an odor change or color change then adding an antioxidant is something you try. If that stops the destabilizing process then you move on to your next problem. It’s rare that anyone gets much chance to ponder why an antioxidant worked or what chemical reaction it prevented.The lack of theoretical knowledge in cosmetic chemistry was one of the most surprising things to me when I entered this industry. In college chemistry you learn all sorts of theoretical stuff and chemical reactions, but in formulating you focus on what substances do & not so much on why. -
Thanks for the tips Bob!
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Did you search through the CIR?
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hmm not sure. What happened when you tried to register with your own email?
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The thing about “cruelty free” is that it is an arbitrary claim. While the Leaping Bunny folks have their standards those are not official and they may fall short of what some people consider cruel. For example, one could argue that pretty much ANY plant derived material cannot be cruelty free. How many mice & insects were killed during the harvesting of the plants that were used to make the products? That’s hardly cruelty free. Where does the FTC decide the line is for what constitutes “cruelty free”?
Natural is the same way. It could be argued that everything is natural since there has never been anything proven to be super-natural. Synthetic ingredients can only be produced because of existing natural chemical reactions. I’m very curious to see what the FTC uses as their definition for natural. How can they say something like Petrolatum is not natural when it comes right from the ground? How can they say Dimethicone is any less natural than something like Sodium Cocoyl Sulfate? -
@Bobzchemist - Yes. If you use “Chemists Corner” as your employer, they should approve you without a website.Note: you can’t get samples sent to a home address.
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You’ll need to list all the ingredients in your formula to get an answer.
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You also need to give more information. What else is in the formula?
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Cetrimonium Chloride is often blended with Amodimethicone to get it to go into solutions. For example Dow Corning 949 has cetrimonium chloride in it. This can be used in shampoos.
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In the US they sell Jergens hand lotion and John Frieda hair care.
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It makes sense that the human body would be more sensitive to natural ingredients. Plants have had hundreds of thousands of years to create chemicals that will negatively impact organisms like animals and humans who seek to destroy them.
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Great question.
Proven in a scientific paper is not the same as proven as to the FDA requirements.To have a new ingredient added to an OTC monograph the FDA has specific testing requirements. These have not been met for vitamin C in regards to lightening. -
@PharmaSpin - Well, I’m not a lawyer so I can’t give legal advice. It is illegal to make statements that are false so the “with Vitamin C” statement is fine if you are actually putting it in there. The other claim “vitamin C can help reduce age spots…” is not necessarily true since there isn’t any acceptable proof provided to the FDA about the ingredient doing that. But there may be a way to word it like “vitamin C has traditionally been believed to improve the appearance of age spots”
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Brookfield is what we always used. Industry standard.
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You sound like a perfect candidate for our course. Let me know if you have any questions. https://chemistscorner.com/members
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You better have a good specification sheet and certificate of analysis. Maybe an independent lab should analyze it.
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Sure it’s possible.
There are not really any noticeable skin benefits to the herbs so diluting them won’t matter. -
@Zink - The interesting thing I notice about the study Mark attached was that the Petrolatum outperformed the Moringa Butter. Usually, when you see a supplier presentation you see things that are more unexpected (like Moringa outperforming petrolatum). I don’t know why they wouldn’t compare equal %s though. Seems strange.
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Welcome aboard everyone! Great to have you here.
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