OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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If you want to formulate at pH 5-6 then Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate won’t be very useful. They are most effective at pH levels below 5.
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Unless you have the formula of the competitor, it’s doubtful you can reverse engineer it exactly. But in formulating, you don’t have to be exact to meet consumer expectations.
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The JASON product likely using the Sucrose Cocoate to suspend it or the Polyglyceryl-3 Caprate or the Glyceryl Stearate or probably a blend of them all.
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There’s this published by the American Cancer Society.
https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/talcum-powder-and-cancer.html And this is an interesting view of the case.
https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-johnson-and-johnson-talc-cancer-case/ -
There are over 1500 cases like this. I don’t think this will withstand appeal. The headline is terrible “New Jersey investment banker who got cancer from talcum powder…”
It should read “New Jersey investment banker who CLAIMS to have gotten cancer from talcum powder…”There is no scientific evidence that talcum powder causes cancer.
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Ah, that’s an interesting dilemma.
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How could the supplier of the colorant not know this information?
Colorants are one of the most highly regulated of all ingredients that go into a cosmetic. In the US the FDA actually has to certify all batches of most colorants. It may be different in the EU but typically the EU is even more strict than the US.
It sounds like you need a new color supplier.
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You don’t actually need a thickener for your system.
Create a formula without the thickener and without salt. Then run a salt curve analysis (using Sodium Chloride). This will tell you how much salt you need to achieve the viscosity you want.
Note: Your Sodium Benzoate can also affect the salt curve.
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Great review @Bill_Toge !
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I agree. 0.2% seems a bit much. I always add it near the beginning because it takes some time to dissolve.
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For the curious - ICMAD https://www.icmad.org/
I do not know much about them so can’t offer an opinion. They are supported by many recognized names in the cosmetic industry so they certainly may be worth joining.
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Yes, I think it is better to start with fewer products. Think of a brand like Wen or Burts Bees who started with only 1 product. Certainly, it’s easier to do that for a hair care or lip balm brand but there are lots of examples on the market of brands that sell a lot of only one product.
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I have this line http://phique.com
There were a few hiccups and I already had my formulas.
First, it was hard to find a reliable contract manufacturer. They didn’t want to make exactly my formula but rather, they wanted to make a formula based on ingredients they were already buying. Eventually, we were able to get something close to my formula but it still wasn’t an exact match.Next, the first batch made didn’t meet specifications but the contract manufacturer filled it anyway. They were all set to ship it out when I finally got a sample and noticed it wasn’t right. Had I not inspected the product, I would have had a shampoo that was so thick no one could get it out of the bottle. The CM made another batch which came out right but I learned to always double check.
Another thing I would have done, should have done was to get pre-orders or commitments from customers prior to moving forward. In the initial batch I made more units than I could quickly sell and had inventory for which we had to pay storage fees. To do this you need to do an excellent job of figuring out who your customer is and where they make their purchases.
If you are wondering how many products you should launch with, you don’t know your customer well enough to launch.
Finally, I work with a partner on the project and neither of us are completely dedicated to the line. I’ve got my websites & other work and he’s got a regular job. You can’t properly build a brand if you aren’t focused on it.
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I’m not trying to dissuade you and I believe it’s worth trying, especially for a characteristic like viscosity.
However, cosmetic formulations are very complicated (on a micro scale) such that you might create exactly the same formula and have a viscosity that ranges from 10,000 - 15,000. It may require you to run multiple samples of the same thing to get the proper variance and deviation. Even then you might not get a precise enough measure to be useful.
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I went through a three day course on DOE a number of years ago but the most useful of these types of experiments I found for formulating was the knockout experiment.
The problem with using formal DOE with cosmetic formulas is that there is rarely a good test to measure significant differences. For food products you can do taste tests which are decent. Most people can tell differences in taste and tell you what they like.
However, cosmetics are more difficult. Measuring things like moisturization is very difficult to be consistent. Same with other things like measuring foam quality, anti frizz, color fastness, etc.
It’s all very subjective and I found that not having an easy way to quantify subtle differences between prototypes is a real obstacle.
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In answer to your question, the petrolatum and mineral oil can work as “oil cleansers.” The idea is that they will absorb any oils on your face then the TEA / Stearic Acid will help rinse everything away.
It is certainly not a typical face wash.
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@gld010 - The ghost was me
I thought it would be helpful for others commenting. When pasting if you hold <command><shift>V it posts without formatting. Or if you’re on a windows machine <ctrl><shift>V -
The more fragrance you put in, the higher the chance for skin irritation or allergic reactions. Especially for products that are meant to be left on the skin.
Plus, fragrance is often one of the most expensive ingredients in a formula.This is what mainstream companies do. It’s a safe and efficient choice. But you can put in as much as you like, as long as it’s stable.
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That’s still not enough information since you’ve left so much out. If you want advice just post the List of all the Ingredients.
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Less than 1%. Perhaps closer to 0.5%. But it really depends on the fragrance.
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“how do you get water and oil to mix without creating a lotion or gel“
Normally, you don’t. You could make a clear micro emulsion with high shear and the right ingredients. Or you could use sonication technology (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10942910600596464)
I’m really not certain what type of product you are trying to make. Dry body oil is a marketing term but it appears what you want is a clear system that uses the oils listed and aloe.
You won’t be able to make this. For example, you can’t make Cetyl Alcohol clear in a water system.
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Cetearyl alcohol isn’t really an emulsifier. At best it’s an emulsion stabilizer. See this discussion.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/745/cetearyl-alcohol-emulsifier-or-notCetearyl Alcohol is also similar to Cetyl Alcohol so it’s not unreasonable to substitute them in some systems. Cetearyl Alcohol is just a blend of Cetyl Alcohol (C16) and Stearyl Alcohol (C18). If you buy Cetearyl Alcohol from KAO it can be as much as 80% Cetyl Alcohol blended with 20% Stearyl Alcohol.
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Salt will not affect the performance of the shampoo. No thickener will increase the “nourishing” of a shampoo.
The clays and gums may be difficult to incorporate into a finished shampoo base but you can try it. Also, something like Hydroxpropylmethylcellulose or Hydroxyethylcellulose can be used as a thickener.However, usually the thickener is added right after the water during production (second or third ingredient). Post adding a thickener isn’t always feasible.
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I agree with @”DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ” - But it would also help if you posted the ingredients in the base.
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As long as you put the lid back on, I imagine you could use it until it is gone.