[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Microformulation. I feel your pain. I am tired of explaining to my friends that dimethicone is not a “rubber” and doesn’t “suffocate” skin and I read many nonsense articles where the author clearly had no idea about the subject. I am sure it’s much worse when it’s your client. I agree with you about the learning. I never was a big fan of “natural”, but I was very careful with parabens when I started (just in case). My approach was “if chanel/dior/la prairie/la mer use phenoxyethanol they probably know what they do’. Then I realised that they make what consumers want, and consumers can’t even explain why they want it, they just “heard it’s bad”. But I have to admit I was too reliant on Paula’s opinion.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation, Paula Begoun has a disclaimer about fatty alcohols on beautypedia and paulaschoice now. Probably after the conversation you mentioned.  I will need to read more about alcohol in skincare. I tried many products (actually too many) before I started formulating, and in most cases, the rule is, if it smells like alcohol (it’s often the case for AmorePacific) it is drying. However, this is a consumer view, not a professional view. Thank you.

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Microformulation. It is a very interesting article. I am absolutely against chemophobia. I think that parabens are much better than phenoxyethanol (at least much more researched), and I never buy into “natural”, “silicones free” nonsense. However, alcohol is very drying and I still see one point there that is not very accurate in this article. I read a study a while ago that specifically covered using alcohol to clean wounds. It actually slows down the healing time and doctors tend to use it less now (I will try to find it, but I remember that the source was legit). I admit I like Paula Begoun and should challenge what she says more. I actually had no idea that butylene (one of my favorite ingredients) is an alcohol too. Regarding improving the delivery of actives ingredients, I was using dimethyl isosorbide for this purpose. I would appreciate your view on that.

[ngarayeva001]

There’s no study that proves that retinyl palmitate works. If you have no luck with the powder, I saw retinol liposomes on the makingcosmetics site.

[ngarayeva001]

Alcohol is one of the worst things that you can put on your skin. Large companies do it but it doesn’t make it appropriate.

[ngarayeva001]

Natural doesn’t equal good. Essential oils are natural but very bad for skin. Also, even vitamin c supplements are not made from oranges. It’s too expensive and there’s no benefit.

Silicon is not ‘rubber’. Diststance between molecules is large enough. I personally don’t like vitamin c dissolved in silicon because of how it feels during application, but as far as I know it’s the only way to keep it stable.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation, I am not a professional by any means and all I am saying is based on my own market analysis and limited experience as a self-learner. Just want to clarify where are my assumptions are coming from.

- Regarding small batches, they are good for personal use but also check out this product:

https://www.clinique.co.uk/product/18919/43382/skin-care/fresh-pressed/fresh-pressed-7-day-system-with-pure-vitamin-c

I was very impressed by their approach.

-Regarding anhydrous L-ascorbic acid products, The Ordinary has several interesting and quite cheap products with LAA for example:

https://theordinary.com/product/rdn-vitamin-c-suspension-30pct-in-silicone-30ml?redir=1

And especially  this one that has only 3 ingredients:

https://theordinary.com/product/rdn-ascorbic-acid-8pct-alpha-arbutin-2pct-30ml?redir=1

I will do more research on collagen synthesis. I had an impression that it was proven in both in-vivo and in-vitro testing, but I am probably wrong.

I use the approach you mentioned (derivatives and other ingredients) in my brightening serum. It contains  MAP, because (as per my research) is the best for the overall brightening and combination of other brightening ingredients: Alpha-Arbutin, NAG, Niacinamide and Resveratrol, that I am planning to replace by kojic acid as per your advice.

[ngarayeva001]

Regarding thickeners, can you find sodium carbomer (lotioncrafter) or acrylates (makingcosmetics gelmaker powder)? They perform better than gums. Another good option is a polymer like Sepinov EMT (goes well with Montanov, same manufacturer)

[ngarayeva001]

@Paulaa sorry can’t add more than the previous commentator on stickiness, however a couple of notes in general. Your concentration of essential oils is too high. Essential oils are generally bad for skin. You can get away with a concentration of 0.01% but higher than this will sensitize the skin in a long run. Especially if you have phototoxic oils such as orange, lime etc. Also seems like you need more humectant (propanediol, butylene glycol etc) . Correct me if I am wrong please, but where’s your preservative system? And which form of Vitamin E is it? Tocopherol or Tocopheryl Acetate?

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation You can do two things with l-ascorbic acid to make it stable. Either make small batches and keep it in airtight container in the fridge (it is absolutely ok for 3 weeks) if it’s for personal use, or make waterfree product. You can dissolve it either in a very light dimethicone, or (even better) Propanediol. Derivatives are obviously less effective and hard to formulate with. They all have pretty bad solubility, and since the best absorbtion of LAA by skin happens at 20% you will never achieve it with a derivative. Another problem derivatives don’t ‘do it all. Each of them does just one or two functions of LAA. For example Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate is good for overall brightening but does nothing for collagen synthesis (and has terrible solubility!). Perri has a very informative podcast about derivatives.

[ngarayeva001]

@GreenFrog I agree that T-Resveratrol Fluid is not required. Regarding N-Acetyl Glucosamine, I believe it should stay. It is a hyaluronic acid precursor and most importantly it works synergetically with Niacinamide (researches prove it). I am not sure about Dimethyl Isosorbide, but I noticed that some producers (for example The Ordinary) add it to the products containing Niacinamide (and some other activities) to pass stratum corneum and deliver Niacinamide deeper. I would appreciate if someone can comment on it. Btw anticipating questions I need hyaluronic acid there too, but not for it’s moisturizing properties. It’s my gelling agent. Because no polymer will hold this concentration of actives.

[ngarayeva001]

I agree regarding pure items. I bought many unnecessary products such as this liquid, algae extract that doesn’t do anything and licorice root extract (that destroys the texture of any lotion) when I just started formulating.  I read controversial things about DMAE.  To maintain the efficacy and stability of DMAE, the product’s pH level must be at least 10 which obviously isn’t good for skin. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Belassi I recently ordered T-Resveratrol from lotioncrafter. They claim it’s very good quality (fine particles) and sourced naturally. I disperced it in glycerine and added to a lotion (1%). There’s no powdery feel at all, but this method will not work for a clear serum. I will let you know if I manage to dissolve it in  Propanediol. Also I have a reason to believe that to achieve 1% concentration with the liquid sold by making cosmetics, you should add 10% of it to your product. I don’t recommend it though because you will compromise the texture of the final product.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation, I have never used it because I read that it tends to oxidise over time. Also, I can’t find the required pH for in the supplier’s site (makingcosmetics). I use the ingredients with the same required pH for this formula. Please let me know if you have any experience with it.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation did you experience any change of colour with it? I am wondering if I should just exclude it at all. My serum works, but since it is loaded with active ingredients, I don’t know what is exactly responsible for the effect.

[ngarayeva001]

Nothing works better for clear systems than Crothix liquid. You can control the viscosity by adding more. Finish your product adjust pH and start adding from 0.5% and bring it to 1.5%. INCI: PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate (and) PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides (and) Aqua.

[ngarayeva001]

Ingredients that I would add to almost any face moisturiser: 1)humectants: glycerin plus butylene glycol or propanediol (you can do all three) and low molecular weight hyaluronic acid, 2) silicones: light dimethicone (not dimethicone 500 or 1000) or cyclomethicone, 3) good quality refined oils/butters. I recommend refined, because not refined smell and compromise application (but if you are creating “natural” “hispter” product go ahead) 4) One of the best emulsification system is Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100, combined with Cetyl Alcohol or/and Ceterayl Alcohol (not stearic acid). 5) If you want to go to another level get polymers. My favourite is Sepinov by Seppic. I order it from the US (lotioncrafter). Makingcosmetics has an easy to use one called GelMaker EMU (order from the US or from Amazon if you are in the UK). 6) Parabens are the best. Effective and don’t spoil the texture as Phenoxyethanol does. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang oils/butters that assure the best application are: shea butter, argain oil, jojoba oil and squalane (normal to dry skin). I personally love rosehip oil. Olive oil and coconut oil are not good for face, as highly comedogenic (so your combination of light mango butter and coconut oil isn’t perfect). Use them for scrubs and body products if you want. If you formulate for oily skin argain is the least comedogenic oil. If you want a “light feel” you can try mango butter, peach kernel oil, apricot kernel oil and grapeseed oil.  Glycerin is good but anything more than 3% would cause a tacky feel. Consider adding butylene glycol and propanediol (the best).

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang, you are welcome. If you are making it for a personal use, nothing works better than L-Ascorbic acid. It is also the most researched one. The maximum absorption happens at 20%. You can dissolve 20% in water and then add 0.3-05% of high molecular weight hyaluronic acid as a thickener and humectant. It will stay effective for a week (actually 3 but I say 1 week to make sure it works) if you keep it in the fridge in airtight container. It can sensitise skin because of its low pH (usually 2-2.5). If it’s too much for you, either try to reduce L-Ascorbic acid to 15% of add TEA to elevate pH. Just make sure it is below 3.5 because otherwise, it won’t work. I make a 15ml bottle every two weeks. It takes 10 minutes to make it. And use sunscreen.

[ngarayeva001]

@Belassi I agree with you, resveratrol is not soluble in water. T-Resveratrol Fluid is sold by makingcosmetics.com. They dissolve it in propylene glycol. I am not sure how much of actual resveratrol is there, I bought it a while ago when I just started formulating and didn’t have much knowledge. I recently ordered resveratrol powder and will be dissolving it in Propanediol (as the supplier recommends). Regarding percentages, The Ordinary has a product that consists of only three ingredients: Resveratrol -3%, Ferulic Acid - 3% and  Propanediol, so I believe you can achieve a higher concentration in water if dissolve it in propylene glycol, or propanediol first.

[ngarayeva001]

I can share ingredients  that I use for baby shower gel: coco-glucoside, cocamidopropyl betaine, decyl glucoside, xantham gum as a thickener, plus glycerine and aloe vera powder. Adjust pH to 6. You can open your eyes while washing your face with it and won’t have an irritation. 

[ngarayeva001]

There is one thing that works every time crothix liquid (PEG-150). 1 to 1.5% will assure good viscosity. Also if you want to go ‘natural’ for a baby product, I would say replace SLES to coco-glucoside and thicken it with xantham gum (not more than 1%). The texture however would not be as nice as with crothix.

[ngarayeva001]

1) Combination of mango butter and coconut oil isn’t the best one. 2) You will never have a nice feel and smooth application with stearic acid. 3) You need humectants (at least glycerin). If you use conventional emulsifiers and thickeners, you have to add silicones. 4) If you want really smooth application you need polymers (sepinov, seppiplus 400, aristoflex etc).

[ngarayeva001]

If focusing on dark spots: N-Acetyl Glucosamine with  Niacinamide. Overall brightening alfa-arbutin and magnesium ascorbyl phosphate. L-Ascorbic acid ‘does it all’ but it’s not stable. Also keep in mind using skin brightening ingredients assumes religious application of sunscreen.

[ngarayeva001]

There’s only one ingredient that is proven to brighten skin and reduce wrinkles - retinol. Not retinyl palmitate.