[natasha.acendra]

Hi! Aniela

Thank you for letting me know the correct use of the term! English isn’t my first language and i’m just getting into making products with color so i appreciate it! I am aware that only I can conduct the experiments. I just wanted some starting points on formulas that someone might have already stumbled upon and thought were a nice color 🙂 I also think they ask for too many colors, but that’s what my client wanted 😩

Thanks for taking the time answering!

[natasha.acendra]

I personally haven’t had the chance to work with either of the blends you’ve tried, but I have found that the one I use—Chemoryl™ SFB-10SSB (Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, and Cocamidopropyl Betaine)—is quite good. It has strong cleansing power with little to no irritation.

On another note, if you haven’t found a supplier that sells in relatively small quantities, you might want to check out LotionCrafter or MakingCosmetics. The MakingCosmetics website also offers some formulations and information on various ingredients and products.

[natasha.acendra]

I forgot to mention this surfactant blend that MakingCsometics sells Cleansing Blend WF, wich is Cocamidopropyl hydroxysulatine, decyl glucoside, and sodium lauroyl sarcosinate.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  natasha.acendra.

[natasha.acendra]

Hi! Thank you very much for taking the time to asnwer.

I will make de violet solution, to try and neutralize de color as much as i can. And i will definetely look up some more color theory videos on youtube!

[natasha.acendra]

UPDATE!

I tried the changes you suggested, but I still have the same problems—there’s still smoke coming out when blow-drying the hair, and it doesn’t hold curls. However, I did another test and swapped P-37 for P-7, and it worked really well! I think it solved the problems I encountered before. I also made the changes Abdullah recommended, and I think I now have a pretty good formula.

[natasha.acendra]

UPDATE!

I tried the change you suggested and it did wonders! Totally loved it! I took out the cetyl alcohol (on it’s own) completely, added 3% of stearyl alcohol, reduced the BTMS 50% by 2% and loved the results. It did wonders to the viscosity and left a really nice feeling to the hair.

Thank you so much for the tip!

[natasha.acendra]

Thanks! I do have some stearyl alcohol so i will do this version of the formula in the upcoming days and let you know how it works out!

[natasha.acendra]

Hahaha, Thank you!

[natasha.acendra]

I tried the formula, increasing the Polyquaternium-37 to 0.5%, and the cetyl alcohol to 5% as well as reducing de hydrolyzed proteins to 0.25% each, here’s what I noticed after i used it:

• It left my hair feeling quite smooth when WET but stiff when DRY.
• It helped me detangle my hair.
• When I blow-dried my hair, I could see smoke coming out of it.
• When I curled my hair, it didn’t hold the curl as well as other times

On another note, making these changes to the product itself helped A LOT with the viscosity problem I was dealing with. I could even say it was almost too thick—like when you turn a Blizzard upside down.”

Do you have any idea what could be causing these negative effects after it dries on the hair?

I think it might be the polyquaternium—that it could be sensitive to heat or that it forms a film around the hair, which evaporates when heat is applied. But i’m not that sure, it’s just a wild guess.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  natasha.acendra.

[natasha.acendra]

I did a test like that a while ago, but I saw no substantial difference between 0.5% and 0.25%. However, I had different ingredients back then, so I can definitely try it again.

[natasha.acendra]

Yes! Both of them are hydrolyzed. The solvent is water, so i don’t see any problem in that. I guess i’ll try lowering percentage of the proteins and see if it helps.

[natasha.acendra]

Hi! Yes, I have them identified. Quite a few of my surfactants are yellowish, as well as some proteins and my amino acid blend. On their own, they aren’t as yellowish, but blending them together gives the mixture a yellow tint. I did think of adding titanium dioxide i just wanted to see if anyone else had an alternative. But thank you very much i think i’ll try it out and see how it turns out.

[natasha.acendra]

I don’t think I’m fully getting the point. I add phase B to phase A at high speed (around 700-800 RPM), and when it’s time to cool it down, I reduce the speed to around 500 RPM. Do you think that might be the issue? Should I keep it at high speed during the cooling phase?

[natasha.acendra]

My pH is between 5 and 5.5. I hadn’t really considered that the amphoteric surfactant might be the one reducing foam production. I just looked up that, at the pH range I am using, the amphoteric surfactant primarily acts as a cationic surfactant, which, according to my experience in these formulations, does impact foam production. I will try another version of the shampoo, removing all the amphoteric surfactants and adding decyl glucoside to see if it helps improve foam production.

[natasha.acendra]

I was waiting to respond because I wanted to try out the shampoo the way you suggested. Here’s what I found:

I removed Sodium C12-14 Olefin Sulfonate and arginine from the formula, reduced panthenol to 0.5%, and increased my surfactant blend to 28%. However, I made two versions of the shampoo—one without Hydroxysultaine, replacing it with 5% Cocamidopropyl Betaine, and another without Cocamidopropyl Betaine, replacing it with 5% Hydroxysultaine.

Here’s what I noticed:

• Both versions lost significant viscosity (I had to increase Glucamate to 5.6%; this is my rheology modifier, by the way).
• They didn’t produce as much foam as I expected (removing Sodium C12-14 Olefin Sulfonate might have caused this).
• Despite that, I felt a good cleansing sensation, and it left my hair feeling soft and silky (thanks to the polyquaterniums).
• However, when I gave some of the product to one of my colleagues, he said it produced very little to no foam and was difficult to spread through his hair. (Though I should note that he has really short hair compared to mine) But said he liked the conditioner feeling it gave.

I think I made some progress by reducing the formula’s cost, but I also took a step back in terms of foam production. I will keep trying different versions of the formula taking into consideration your help. Thank you so much!

[natasha.acendra]

I think I’m starting to get it now. I’m making a conditioner that works for all hair types, so maybe the best approach could be a blend of cationic surfactants. That way, I can achieve the right texture with the appropriate amount of (+) ions to help provide those after-wash properties (no frizz, proper detangling, etc.) without minimizing volume.

I appreciate all the help you’ve been giving me. Thanks a lot for taking the time.

[natasha.acendra]

Thank you so much for such detailed explanation! It really helps me better understand the nuances between the different cationic surfactants and how they affect the final product. I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge, it’s been a huge help!

[natasha.acendra]

I haven’t tried it because my supplier didn’t have it in stock, but I was able to get it from another source to test it. However, I’m still a bit confused about which surfactant to use for each case—could it be based on price or quality? Anyways i’m thankfull for your help!!

[natasha.acendra]

Update! I adjusted the percentages of the ingredients you recommended, and it did wonders for the product! The Plantasens Olive LD really enhanced the sliding sensation I was missing. It significantly improved the application of the product on the hair and gave it an amazing feel once it dried.

I’m still working on finding the perfect cationic surfactant- fatty alcohol blend to help with detangling and frizz, but I think I’m getting close now. Thanks a lot for the help.

[natasha.acendra]

Okay, excellent! I can get my hands on some Plantasens Olive LD. I’ll try it out and let you know my feedback if you’d like.

[natasha.acendra]

Thank you so much for your help! I’ll definitely try the tips you gave me.

However, I forgot to mention that my client would like the formula to be silicone-free. I’ve tried different polyquaterniums (like 7, 6, and 10) in hopes that one of them could provide the silky, gliding sensation that silicones give, but none of them have achieved that effect. Do you have any recommendations for an ingredient that could mimic the feel of silicones?