[MX_science]

Hi,

I know this is an old thread but I still have some questions specifically around information posted in this thread so hopefully someone can still speak to this.

MY SITUATION

I am trying to create an anhydrous oil blend, and it keeps separating. After much research I thought, “ah-ha! maybe their polarities don’t match!”

However, even though I have found MOST polarity index numbers for my oils in the mix, it’s not clear to me that the number is a solid way to determine if they are POLAR or NONPOLAR.

Because MAKING SKINCARE listed Carpyl/Caprine acid triglyceride (neutral oil) @ 21.3 I thought that if that is the “NEUTRAL POINT,” I initially assumed that everything higher in # would be NONPOLAR and everything lower in #, POLAR.

Specific examples would be:

Cyclomethicone @ 20.6, is a lower # than the neutral point of  21.3, so why isn’t it considered to be on the “polar” side of neutral? 

If it is true that the higher the number, the less polar the oil then I am plain confused by why Cyclomethicone is specifically called out in the same post as being NONpolar, along with these that fall higher in number than the “neutral oil”: 

-dimethicone @ 26.6 and  

-mineral oil @ 43.7 & 38.3.

What am I missing? Is the neutral point simply incorrectly listed? Or are there other more complicated molecular factors that determine polar or non-polar and the numbers are simply a secondary influence compared to those?

I read this article suggested and it didn’t hint at this seeming paradox. https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/research/chemistry/17390254.html

Similarly, Jojoba oil @ 20.8 is stated to be a “ Relatively more polar oil (per O’Lenik)” but is JUST BELOW the neutral threshold of 21.3. How is that possible if it is just shy of being neutral?

[MX_science]

I have extensive experience with henna for hair dying purposes. I have been dying my hair with it for over 10 years.

It sounds like the original poster has abandoned the experiment, but for others who have an interest I will add some information on this topic.

• Henna is the powdered leaves of a plant
• Henna powder is notorious for being ADULTERATED, especially if you buy a product specifically for the hair. Even if it says only henna under ingredients, it may still contain heavy metal salts added. IF YOUR HAIR IS ALREADY COLOR-PROCESSED and you use adulterated henna this is known to turn hair GREEN! So you must be careful to acquire it from a reputable and trusted source. I advise using body-grade henna, even for hair use. This is not a guarantee of purity, but it is less likely to be adulterated.
• Henna paste is perishable like food. One week in the fridge. Frozen for months and months. I make a big batch, put it in cones, freeze and thaw when needed. A preservative I do not think will help here because the powder is plant matter & “bug food,” but even if you could keep the paste from growing nasties, I do not believe the preservative will help with the degradation of the dye molecule itself, only bug growth.
• It is mixed to a paste under specific conditions that will release the dye molecule
• (a) boiling water is too hot - this will damage your final dye content, use warm liquid
• (b) using an acid (lemon juice, tea or coffee are traditional) helps to release the dye
• (c) dye release is not instantaneous, it may take 30 minutes to 24 hours, depending on the quality and age of your stating henna powder
• (d) you want a consistency of yogurt. too dilute (5% is def too little) will not really get you anything
• (e) powder if fresh should be a light alfalpha green, be greenish when first mixed, and turn brown or blackish if/when the dye release is a success. You can test dye release on the skin (be ware it can stain skin up to several weeks) by putting a drop of paste for a minute on the skin. wipe it off, you should see a bright orangy spot
• It is permanent. Yes you may go through some process (unknown to me) to remove strip it, but barring that the color stays on the hair (with some fading - and it fades from grey hairs faster)
• It will stain skin and clothes, so take precautions, use gloves
• It is advised to mix it in glass / wood and not metal bowls or spoons
• Henna responds to heat and takes TIME. Some people leave it on overnight for the dye molecule to penetrate and absorb. Wrapping your henna-pasted head in plastic and covering with a heating pad will help it go faster. I do not think a brief rinse out product like shampoo or even conditioner will get you any color.
• Henna dye takes time to DEVELOP. the color you get right after treatment will be brighter, and more orangy. The color will deepen and darken over 36 hours, becoming more auburn than orange.
• White hairs take on a more orange tint. This can be countered by adding some Indigo to the mix. Indigo will not survive the freezing process 0 it has to be added fresh, just before use.
• It does make the hair feel rough/dry especially when trying to rinse it out of the hair but hair is shinier and conditioned afterwards. I rinse out the bulk gently, slather on conditioner and rinse again to counter this.

[MX_science]

I second the comments pointing to an oil to cleanse. I make an oil cleanser (basically just oils with emulsifier and surfactants to help rinse-off). It’s still a work in progress but it’s definitely what I reach for when I want to get clean after a beach day with lots of sunscreen reapplications, especially for my face.

[MX_science]

Zink,

What I have to say will not help you with the current situation you find yourself in, but I did read that by selecting ingredients (when possible) that are multi-functional or flexible (and therefore used in more than one of your products) you can gain some business advantages. For the small business, they can buy in larger quantities because it will be flowing out the door faster in multiple products. Or adapt to a larger MOQ without as much hardship.

Of course there are often ingredients that are unique to a formula and if that supplier ups their MOQ this isn’t a help. But for those who are not locked into a formula yet, I wanted to mention this tactic. One could for instance find one emulsifier that worked for multiple products instead of using a unique one for each.

Perhaps you can negotiate a grace period with your supplier? Or an exception if you do enough other business with them on other supplies? Offer a slightly higher per-unit price for a lower quantity if they are incurring labor costs to repackage the ingredient in smaller batches?

Or launch a new product which also uses the ingredient, thereby increasing your needed demand such that 5X MOQ is viable for you?

Best luck,

Margeaux

[MX_science]

Hi everyone,

My name is Margeaux and I live in California. I have a science degree, though not cosmetic science specifically and have been formulating at home for many years now. What stared as a way to control the quality and chemicals that I put on my skin has become a pretty passionate hobby with perhaps an eye to launching a product line one day.

Although the more I learn about what that takes, the more daunting it seems. I’m sure this story has been told before: I share creations with my friends, they LOVE it, I should “sell this,” etc. They have NO idea how complicated it can be! It seems, due to regulations and testing, that this is a tough industry to start small and test your ideas out to see if demand is there. It feels like you need a bunch of capital and be ready to jump “all in.” I would love any ideas on starting small if this can be done.

I’m here to help when I can with what I DO know, but also because on some matters of chemistry, no matter how hard I Google I hit a certain WALL where the information I need cannot be found. Over the years I have stumbled on some of this elusive information, but there are times when I just don’t know what else to put in the search box to find what I need.

Looking forward to learning!

Margeaux