Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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You could produce a blend, but there would be some concerns;
Firstly, depending upon your country, these ingredients have absolute limits delineated in the regs. You would have to be familiar with the regs and then comply.
Secondly, these combinations already exist from the distributors. They are time tested, supporting documentation and technical support is provided, they provide third party validation and are manufactured under cGMP. When you factor in the extra manufacturing steps to produce these combinations yourself, it is doubtful you are getting any real savings.
Lastly, with exceptions, most of us have limited microbiology practice or technical training in microbiology. As such you should utilize these specially designed products from highly qualified sources.
Like I said, these combinations exist. Congratulations, you are re-inventing the wheel and there are better areas to expend our limited time and assets on.
EDTA is left out of these combinations for many reasons. An important one is flexibility. If a client has sustainability issues with EDTA your combination is invalid and you will have difficulty using a replacement that is perceived to be more sustainable.
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1% active equals 2 SPF is an inaccurate and overly generalized claim. BASF makes an SPF calculator that is much more accurate. Also, regardless of all the calculations, it all rests on your testing. As long as they have test results that prove SPF 60, the rest is moot.
https://www.sunscreensimulator.basf.com/Sunscreen_Simulator/Login_show.action
You ask a great deal of questions regarding Mineral sunscreens. Out of curiosity, are you working for a manufacturer or trying this all at home? No offense, but the level of sophistication in training and equipment is how I gauge my advice. For instance, I would likely never give a Home Crafter too much information but simply say it is an area that requires appropriate assets (read her proper equipment, no shortcuts) and relevant experience in a technical setting.
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I do agree. The lack of an emulsifier is what I was obliquely referring to when I said it wasn’t a stable Formulation. Scrap all that and try Bob’s formulation. It will be easier and require less knowledge of the raw materials.
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I certainly agree. As it has been said quite often in this forum, “natural” really means nothing. If you want credible “natural” products, use a Natural standard as your guidance.
Ironically, the alkalis you BAN are more “natural” than the thickeners you named!
In the listed thickeners you list Nitrosol (a nitrogen containing fertilizer). I am assuming you meant Natrasol?
Again, this is an advanced area that you may want to do more research in before proceeding.
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Why are you looking for limit ceilings? It would be of more use to look at typical usage rates.
Glycolic acid technically doesn’t have a limit, but there is lots of guidance (Cosmetic Ingredient Review) that limits non-Professional products (those not administered by a practitioner in a practice setting) to less than or equal to 10% and a pH greater or equal to 3.5 pH. I have had a regulatory person point out that this information is well disseminated and if an adverse reaction occurred with a product not in compliance, an attorney could have a field day.
There is some variance here from Bill’s numbers. Here is my reference.
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Is the product yours? If so, you would need to post percentages so that helpful experts in here could weigh-in.
If it isn’t yours, I would ditch it all (as it seems to be an unstable Formulation) and start from scratch.
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I am inferring that you are in Australia? If you are looking for a Consultant, check with the Australian Society of Cosmetic Chemistry. I have sent people to them for referrals and they were able to help.
I am glad you see the problem with Google as a reference sources. No offense to you, but if you follow this forum long enough you will see posters lead with a long list of google citations (usually from Mommy Bloggers) as their sole research material.
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Again, the US FDA OTC monograph only allows the acid form, not any salts.
When you post something such as the italicized statement above, a source would be great. This would make it easier to qualify the credentials of the author. We defined a citation standard in our SOP’s recently. No blogs. Should be to a Journal submission or Academic standard. The credentials of the author should be reviewed. Do you have the original source?
Just now I found the citation. It is from an Amzon sales page, not a Journal. The seller (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Salicylic-Acid-Powder-500g-Skin-Care-Products-Treating-Acne-And-Pimple-Prone-skin/32604289940.html) makes the claim but doesn’t provide substantiating documents. Not to beat a dead horse, but you must be discerning on using and citing information from a simple google search.
Lastly I did look and saw a very slim minority of products that contain Sodium salicylate. The material is far down the ingredient list (below the 1% line) and it is not claimed as an active. See
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Also, technically you would migrate off the allowable FDA Monograpghs here in the US with Sodium Salicylate. They are clear that it is the salicylic acid that is allowed, not a salt.
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In my experience Ultrez 20 and 30 do not have enough yield resistance to support suspended particles. Compicating the issue os the fact that if it is a true saponified soap, thickening itself is a task. Suspending particles will be even more difficult. The high pH is problematic, hence the reason these particles are seen in surfactant systems, not soaps.
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Vitamin A is reeeeaaallly not the same as Retinol. Close, but not the same.
Retinol was proposed as an OTC for acne but it is not on the OTC monograph. As such any mention of a link between the retinol and acne would make your product unauthorized and not marketable in the US.
I would look at some of the products Salvona has for both the Retinol and the Salicylic acid. They are encapsulated in a safflower liposome and water solube. More expensive but easier to use. Salicylic acid can be a challenge to solubulize and would Salicylic acid itself would not be water soluble. You will need to use a solvent such as DPG or PG.
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I have used the Sunspheres successfully in the past as well.
One note: Even if the sample Formula projects an SPF value, you still must have the Formula tested. You can not extrapolate the final SPF.
Lastly SPF is only one factor, Spectrum must be considered also.
I have never seen silicones used to boost SPF, outside their use as spread enhancers. NEVER use Google as your research tool.
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I have always found 2-3% to be sufficient.
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Not a problem. I see this well meaning exercise time after time. “I want to make an extract from a flower in my backyard and sell my line to X retailer.” Well X Retailer will ask for raw material documentation which is pricey. In the end, making the extract would distract you from the overall Formulation. Sometimes it isn’t all about the pieces, but the end result.
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Why not buy a commercially available, standardized and properly preserved Marshmallow Extract? At some point you could be asked by a client to provide TDS’s and MSDS’s on all your materials and at that time you would have no choice but to buy a standardized extract. Hence, if you are selling, don’t make your own raw materials.
Here is even a retail source; http://www.formulatorsampleshop.com/FSS-Marshmallow-Extract-p/fss16693.htm
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Here is a large part of your issue as well; (hand mixing in a bowl with small spatula). There are numerous posts on proper mixing equipment. Unless you fix this issue you will have issues.
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I have used the Applechem Zinc. It does still whiten.
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Remember that Free water (Aw) makes for a cool theory. However, it can not be calculated. It must be measured, both in R&D and also in Production. The equipment is specialized. Using Aw is one of the tricks of the “preservative free” market. But again, lacking the equipment to properly measure this value, it simply becomes a part of the overall Hurdle process, not a standalone.
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Start here. This is a pdf overview of Preservation. It is a few years old so the usage data (most popular preservatives) is dated, but the updated data has been posted on here recently.
My advice on learning preservatives is to step away from a comapanies listing of preservatives and instead learn the chemical classifications (ex. paraben, organic acid, etc.) and the way to best use them. Then you will see once you select the correct preservative class or group that will work best in your Formulation, you can likely find a matching product from most suppliers.
Also and lastly, preservation is based upon the characteristics of each Formula, not a one size fits all situation. In addition it is not just a matter of adding a preservative, mixing and being done. Follow the Hurdle Technique as outlined in the presentation. Factors such as the packaging, pH and Manufacturing sanitation have a factor as well. As David Steinberg says often, “The best preservative is good cGMP.”
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I have had great success with the Croda Solaveil line. They do (or at least did, it has been 18 months) have a pre-dispersed Jojoba base. There are various other suppliers. These materials are easier to work with, but in the end you really need adequate mixing energy.
I think Bob explained all your questions above. Yes, with milling it is likely that you would have a spread of particle sizes. Even with the Grant product, the average particle size is 255. This is just the peak on the bell curve.
Take one thing to heart. With the limitations of the material, non-nano non-whitening is not feasible no matter how much you wish it to be.
Here is my advice. First, abandon the term “natural” until such time that we have an agreed upon and legislated definition. Refine the term to “Naturally compliant” and then learn/follow a Natural standard. Then, remember a successful and elegant product that is like a three legged stool and the legs are Natural compliance, cost and performance. Make anyone leg to long (I need non-nano, Gluten free, Palm free ZnO for example) and the stool topples over. Balance is the key.
This is especially important with sunscreens in the Market. Many I have sampled are absolute messes! In order to disperse the ZnO, give great spreadability and perhaps add water resistance, you will find that you may have to stray a bit from the standard. This is much less a factor now than it was even 5 years ago as the distributors have made many more “natural” materials available to us.
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A Mineral (Physical) sunscreen takes a great deal of mixing energy in order to make as the ZnO must be evenly dispersed. This is not in the reach of anyone without the proper expensive equipment and that only touches upon one issue of many. Sunscreens are involved Formulations requiring proper agents for the spreading, additional agents to give water resistant properties as needed and LASTLY they require extensive (think $$$) outside testing of SPF and Spectrum. To do these to “challenge yourself”as a novice Formulator is reckless and ill advised.
Lastly, with the Polyhydroxysteric acid, are you getting that from an Ingredient list? If so, it is likely that it was a component of a pre-dispersed ZnO product such as Solaveil CZ-100, not an added additional ingredient.
Again, this is not a starter project in anyway whatsoever, no, no, no, nyet.
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A sunscreen is also not a great starting project.
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To be fair I have never been turned down by a Distributor when called. They understand that not everyone knows the usage data. Honestly, I really think they call to establish who you are and ensure you are qualified. The woman I spoke with said that many of the companies that sample out oils were hit hard by crafters. You can get samples of many oils from multiple sources and combine them to get enough to make a Crafter size batch. I know JE Edwards has really gotten selective.
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Damn, not another EWG reference!
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ULProspector has upped the scrutiny by which the qualify new accounts. I believe Perry has an alternate method set-up, but in general they are getting stricter.
I spoke with them several weeks ago. The representative stated that they had way too many crafters on the site. They are not biased against the crafters, but they see a trend where some crafters will get a healthy sample and never order otherwise. Many manufacturers were leaving ULProspector for this reason. In these cases they may have used the samples for Production. They will require a business email and an address.
That said, even once you are on ULProspector, expect the distributor rep to call you before they ship the sample. They will ask about your business, projected volumes and end-use of the material.