Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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I think you are simplifying a topic that is much more complicated than you believe.
- Each Formula must be looked at as a whole before selecting the proper preservative. There is not just one preservative that you will buy and use solely for the rest of your formulations.
- Preservation has other aspects. Ready about the Hurdle Technique (to broad for this post). There are many aspects that you need to consider.
- A preservative must also take into account Marketing benchmarks to a certain extent.
This is a topic that Formulators learn about and continue to learn about daily. There is no simple answer.
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You list by descending order by WEIGHT, not volume. We weigh all ingredients in credible Cosmetic manufacturing.
Also, it is the FDA, a Federal entity, not a State entity that would be inspecting you.
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/resourcesforyou/industry/ucm388736.htm
You do have some due diligence to follow-up on.
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For example, when suggesting alternatives to a PEG ingredient you will suggest another but much different PEG. Not all PEG’s have the same function. Have you also considered PEG Bundy?
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I would look into one of Perry’s courses. The biggest lie in the Cosmetic Field right now is the “I can google this and it looks simple, I don’t need to be a Chemist.” Almost every other technical field you would not take this attitude. Cosmetic Chemistry is not any different. It is a fool’s belief to overly simplify it.
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These are pretty simple questions which show that you need to do a great deal more research before tackling this project. Those two products above aren’t even close. It seems at this point you are throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick, so to speak. You need to start looking at the fundamentals of these materials.
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I have had clients send me “samples” of these products. They are bag-on-valve systems with Nitrogen GAS as the propellant. Perhaps someone from the EU can weigh-in, but from what I have seen, nitrogen gas is used more often in the EU than some of the propellants we routinely use here in the US.
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@mikethairMy question regarding preservation was not directed to the liquid soap, but rather the OP’s revised Formula (“Gaur Gum, Decyl Glucoside (30% of the mix), water (30% of the mix), Aloe Vera (30% of the mix), herbal extract, Glycerin and essential oils”). In this case, they would have a product that does require a preservation strategy.
In the revised Formula, the Formulator should take an opportunity to decrease the pH to a more appropriate pH as this is feasible, whereas, with a soap (classically defined saponified product), this is not feasible. Decyl Glucoside is basic, but in my experience, once the mix is created, her initial pH would be in a range of about 7 or so *guesstimate). This product no longer possesses the protections you allude to above.
Lastly, I think if they used Decyl Glucoside as the sole surfactant, they would generally be disappointed in the product’s performance. It is my opinion, that the OP needs to do a little more research into how surfactant cleansing products are designed and then look at a more intelligently designed blend.
Again, it is just my opinion based upon experience and several lines I have worked on (all of which have sold successfully on a National level), but synthetic surfactant systems will generally out-perform a liquid soap every time.
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They are attempting to replicate a marketing model that is huge in France right now. “Thermal Water” (debatable, but hugely bunk) using Nitrogen as the propellant. Many claims of benefits are made, but they are all performed by the supplier themselves.
http://www.labmuffin.com/what-is-thermal-water-and-how-does-it-work-in-skin-care/
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Also, you are missing a preservation strategy.
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There are numerous Formulation software suites.
The issue is that they are expensive and don’t do everything.
As such most companies rely upon Excel and their people develop their value by learning Excel.
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Interesting. Before I knocked it off the first time, I tested a sample. The sample (the MLM product sold online) had an existing high pH. Also, someone posted an EU Safety bulletin regarding the pH. But it is something I will look into.
I agree with the optical illusion. Also, in my experience, the people approaching me to “knock-off” this product tend to be more business oriented (hence naive regarding Cosmetics) and willing to push the marketing envelope than I am generally comfortable with.
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I have done so. It is not a safe product. The pH is way up there.
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In my experience use the Sodium Hydroxide and keep it simple. You may also want to look at some of Dupont’s documents and read up on how they pre-neutralize their Glycolic acids.
https://www.chemours.com/Glypure/en_US/products/neutralized_glypure.html
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I have addressed the discrepancy wihTechnical Services at Stepan (Neobee M5 is a well distributed trade name) and they have stated 5 is correct.
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You have a slight misunderstanding regarding the FIFRA 25 Exempt list. In order to claim the insecticide/pesticide claim the active oil (in your case the Castor oil) must be on the list, The incipients (in this case the Liposorb 20 and the Decyl Glucoside) are not claiming this activity and are not regulated under the Exempt List.
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A bigger issue is that they are labeling as “Organic” and they are not obtaining a USDA Certification. This is a huge red flag and in fact the crux of several lawsuits in the past year. They are out of Puerto Rico and are under the authority of US Regulations.
https://omlifestyle.myshopify.com/products/om-my-goodness-crema-organica-reconstructora
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“What people are concerned with” (Marketing) is irrelevant when discussing Regulatory Affairs (Scientific Compliance Standards).
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I have had much better results with Solagum AX (INCI Name: Acacia Senegal Gum (and) Xanthan Gum) than with Xanthan gum alone or even with Sclerotium gum. It is also easier to get solubilized.
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Here is a small selection from Harrys that should be helpful.
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Harry’s Cosmeticology does a great job in explaining these products and outlining how to develop a standard product. Very much a saponification process. In Production, accounting for an replacing water loss is important. It is also (as Soap Makers can attest) an exothermic reaction so monitoring heat can be critical.
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@zink I have to be purposefully coy, as I have an NDA (the other kind) in place. The gist of it all is that retinol is a difficult material to stabilize and as such it would be difficult to meet the required listed concentrations. Their process (patented) achieved that. If you look at patents, there are hundreds with Cosmetic materials that do not necessarily eliminate others from using them, just not in the “same way” so to speak.
OTC Products have a much higher burden of proof and testing regarding the final claimed label percentage of the active, a fact which I am sure you are aware. With Retinol, meeting and maintaining this percentage was the real task.
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Well, I hate the word natural. I won’t go into depth since I am sure I have covered it before ad nauseum.
Remember “natural” versus “synthetic” is not an analogy of “safe” versus “dangerous.” I know the market urges us to endorse that, but I refuse as a hardcore pure “Scientist.” Be a Scientist first, then let the marketing be written in such a way that doesn’t compromise your integrity. That is just me on my soapbox. I will say that this stance has not limited any of my product lines. Several have grown to multi-million dollar accounts which are in larger retailers. One was recently bought out and that client has effectively “retired.” DON’T FEEL LIKE YOU NEED TO PANDER AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SCIENCE.
I probably wouldn’t post the lab name (they may not approve of the publicity) and when you provide too many details it either goes over the head of the client or it invites way to many questions. Years ago I used to share my stability protocols with clients and believe me it lead to many naive questions that took up way too much time.
I will put that out there. No need to respond as it is off topic. I think you will (as many have) evolve to this sort of view point over time independently.
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You may also want to look at the Inolex Spectrastat line. Of interest, on April 25th they are doing a webinar on the Hurdle Technique;
https://vts.inxpo.com/scripts/Server.nxp?LASCmd=AI:4;F:QS!10100&ShowKey=39449
I get a bit leary of the term preservative free when it is applied to non-standard preservatives that are in fact exerting a preservation function. Preservation is part of a well-designed Formulation and I dislike the temptation to try and make this claim behind a marketing bias. In my experience the bias against preservatives as a whole is minor and in fact, any bias is directed towards individual classes such as parabens and formaldehyde donors. If it is preserving, it is properly a preservative. Like the term Chemical, the term Preservative has a clear definition.
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@ZinkWell, I was just contracted to provide some Formulation work since I had designed the initial product for the company. I think one issue was the fact that Retinol is difficult to stabilize and the client had done so. I am not sure what the project costs were, but if I had to guess close to 750K.
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You may want to call Technical Services at Lincoln Fine Ingredients since the preservatives you are citing are right down their alley.