Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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Spectrum Chemicals.
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On the East Coast, David Wilpon (@DavidW) is great to work with. I have sent several clients his way with great results.
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I only disagree with one aspect of your answer as I have done about 7 of these lines and some “naturally compliant” (natural is marketing). Much like even a busy salon owner, your clientele will not likely move it fast enough, even with multiple sites. The key is to get it into wholesale distribution.
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@em88 Last time I priced it, the quoted price was $52.27 a pound and the MOQ was 55 pounds. I have used it extensively. It works well, but I did have to use it at the higher levels.
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^^^^^^This!
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Do you provide a Technical Data Sheet, Certificate of Analysis and an MSDS?
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Now Clive @Belassi may weigh-in, but as he will tell you, he lives in the land of Mexico where the FDA fears to tread! My regulatory experience is with the US Market.
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Lastly, I have seen lines try to use these products, ignore the salicin/salicylate gap, and not “wink wink” say a word about acne.
If the seller expects a consumer to get “wink, wink, acne”, the FDA Inspector surely will as well. They are not the enemy and pretty sharp as government employees go.
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“adhering to both the Natural Products Association or USDA Standards.”
I qualify the term with third party certifications.
third line of my post;
“Either use a standard or“
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@healthorganic 1, Never use “natural” again as if it has a definition. I am not being snarky, but it is a marketing term with the scientific credibility of “now with twice the chocolate goodness.” It is more of a barrier than a tool and you should strive to remove it from your vocabulary. Either use a standard or lacking that you a defined term you make front and center such as “XYZ Cosmetics avoids {her insert all the likely still safe materials that have been rendered unsellable in some sectors} AND uses naturally occurring plant-based materials (might need to add minerals if color cosmetics and sunscreens) minimally processed to make safe and effective products.” Avoid toxic. Everything is toxic and it is dose related.
What is minimally processed? Generally, emulsions, where you throw in leaves, sticks, bark, and berries, are poorly received. Materials need to be processed to be usable but should be minimally, if at all changed. For a more extensive but technical discussion of approved processes, research this under the COSMOS standard documents. They do a great job defining that.
This accomplishes many things. Firstly the uncertainty of “can I use this in the Formula” is gone, especially if you work with a team. Aso, as a Scientist it grants you credibility and legitimacy. Otherwise, you may as well sell ground up Rhino penis for male potency.
Now that we have done that, let’s see how it solved your problem. “It’s difficult to find ‘natural’ preservatives that have not gone through a lot of processes.” Why no, it is not hard to find plant-based minimally processed preservatives. They come up with many and frequently. I fully expect to be told about many new ones at Suppliers Day.
Lastly, if using a new and less proven ‘naturally derived” preservative, test, test, and test.
2. “I will have to be careful about how I use it.” Yes because it hasn’t been shown to work nor is it approved. Refer back to rhino penis. Naturally derived doesn’t trump effective. You need to be a Scientist first and a Marketer last.
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Have credentialed University-level training in the Sciences, especially Chemistry classes on your resume. “Madame Leona’s School of Psychic Reiki and Natural Salve Academy” doesn’t get you out of the reject pile at a manufacturer. Get a job at a Manufacturer. There is much to learn. Even start at a Lab Tech level if it gets you real experience. I will say though, that the most impressive person I interviewed showed up with 4 solid Cosmetic samples.
There are other ways, but this is the most common and effective. A good portion of the good Technical people I worked with did something in this vein.
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I have used Naturally derived Licorice extracts to some limited effect. I have used the derivatives such as Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate to much greater effect.
I will say though, whenever I hear about Licorice Extract, I always think of @Belassi. For me he is now permanently linked to the product in my mind!
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319610310000578
From the author of the article;
Many
companies turn to willow bark extract to fill the beta hydroxy acid
role. However, willow bark is a source of a lot of confusion in this
regard.The
confusion happens because willow bark extract contains anti-inflammatory
salicin, a type of salicylate. When orally ingested, salicin is
converted by the digestive process into salicylic acid. In a laboratory
setting, salicin can be chemically oxidized to yield salicylic acid.
(Fun Fact: Salicylic acid is the precursor to aspirin.)In
other words, willow bark is a SOURCE of salicylates (specifically,
salicin), which may then be chemically converted into salicylic acid,
but is NOT salicylic acid itself. Accordingly, despite the statements
of many cosmetic companies and ingredient producers, white willow bark extract is not a true salicylic acid substitute. Rather, it is a
“related substance,” at most ideal for reducing inflammation and
associated redness, with the bonus of possibly having an antimicrobial
effect, but it is not going to be the oil-seeking, oil-decreasing,
acne-busting superstar that is salicylic acid. -
Just keep in mind that the extracts are firstly not approved under the OTC monographs for acne. Say acne and the FDA may send you a letter. Look at past enforcement notices, it has happened exactly as I describe. Also, keep in mind that the “natural” alternatives generally contain “salicins” rather than salicylates and the jury is still out on the side by side efficacy.
If you want an effective product ad you feel the call of the “natural” siren, use Salicylic acid and tell the marketing story of the botanical relationship. Remember that it is rightfully an OTC and there are regulatory responsibilities therein.
I have been formulating in this growing “natural” (if you know me, you know the reason for the air quotes) market since 2003 when it was first lucrative for me. In those 15 years, the market has matured. Simply compromising a product in regards to performance, safety or cost in order to meet some outdated one-dimensional market talking point is no longer an option. In this market, a successful product is like a three-legged stool with one leg marketing story (natural et al.), price and performance. A 2003 stool could be all one leg like a single leg camping stool. No longer. The market is accepting less and less “wobble” each year.
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As many have said, HPC (Klucel) is the best solution. Look at some of the Minoxidil Gel (high alcohol) patents for direction.
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That is still not a Chemist. Every Facility that I have seen fail did so to a large part by not having formally trained staff and by shortchanging this asset. If you miss this truism, good luck. I may be in the market for some used equipment in a few years.
You wouldn’t build a dental clinic and hire a Youtube trained dentist. Don’t miss the parallels.
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https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/2532/pcc-phenoxyethanol-globally-approved-preservative/
Per George Deckner who is eminently knowledgeable, it is stable at temperatures >100C. In fact, the Technical Rep from Schulke once recommended adding it prior to heating as it will be more effective at the phase borders.
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Do you have a trained Cosmetic Chemist with some experience in the Market who will know the distributors, the players in the materials, has worked with Regulatory programs and could have as you get more advanced achieve an ISO Certification? If not, that is your first investment. You can write a check to any supplier. Don’t naively under estimate someone with formal experience in the fundamentals and the Industry.
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pH changes with temperature. You can google that to see the details. In fact, some of the better pH meters have a temperature probe in the pH probe and the equipment accounts for the differences in conduction.
We have used a 50% dilution for pH in the past. Keep in mind, that we did NOT use it to project a final pH of the finished product for all the associakted reasons, but rather as an unrelated measure so that we could replicate this 50% value in production to ensure a consistent final product.
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I am not referring to these specific rulings, but a more general comment.
For years now, the US Market has avoided these products and at suppliers conferences, D5 alternatives have been marketed heavily.
Silicones overall in the US have had a bias that is based on pseudoscience. I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard, “Silicones are bad, they bind to the hair and suffocate the hair shaft.”
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Try the dipalmitate salt which is much more stable. On another note, I have done so many of these whitening products. A. That might be a bit aggressive and could have a great deal of inflammation. B. With the multiple raw materials, I imagine you could see some issues with incompatibilities, especially with those actives.
What is your final demographic and what is there Fitzpatrick rating?
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@Doreen81I have experienced the same bias and attitudes from clients. Years ago there was a fallacy in Cosmetics that if a product is unpronounceable, it is bad. I think Food Babe was the worst example.
However, I will say that over time I have seen the market evolve and grow. Many clients have shifted and are simply looking for opportunities to spotlight a supportable story and standard of what “natural” entails as well as to address sustainability. It may sound bad, but in my experience, if they don’t evolve, they do plateau out at the Farmers Market level.
The story of why silicones are “bad” is mind-boggling as a Chemist and filled with scientific errors. However, as we beat to death, “Perception becomes reality.” In my experience, if you can communicate the natural sourcing of an alternative and it sustainability to your client and they run with it, you will be fine. Honestly, if they refuse to take the next step, they may not be ready.
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I honestly have found that the Lexfeel line from Inolex has been the most successful. That said many companies have come out with D5 alternatives. It is a hot area, especially with the marketing bias against silicones (not really based on good science). The Lexfeel products are naturally derived and sustainable and as such meet many of the market demands.
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Wait? Huh? Can’t I just post a LOI and get a free Formula? Thanks for telling me, I was about to post all my pending work and take the rest of the week off.
Seriously though, this is the type of work that people charge money for to make a living or alternatively will create their own product through their own trial and error. “Give a man a fish…”
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In the areas that I have been consulting silicones have been avoided due to market bias anyway. I have been using D5 alternatives for the last 24 months or so to meet this requirement.