[matthewk]

DavidW,
Yes the do. Here’s the list of inerts. 

[matthewk]

Problem Solved. 
Dr. Bob I’m starting a new fan club in your honor! It looks like IPA might actually do the trick. I was messing around in the lab and I heated one of the IPA samples up to 70c to get some bubbles out and when I came back to check on it an hour later, it was clear as a bell. I let cool down to roughly room temp and it remained clear. Woohoo! You ROCK Dr. Bob!  I used 2:1 IPA/Castor. I’m gonna do some more samples and see how little IPA I can get away with using.
Thanks again, sincerely!  This has been one of those things that really bothered me for some reason and it feels great to have a ‘clear resolution’. <span>:smile:</span>

[matthewk]

Update,
DR.BOB I tried the IPA with high hopes, but unfortunately the castor oil is bit of bear and the batches I made still resolve cloudy. I tried a few different ratios to no avail, but I’m gonna give it a little time before I entirely give up on it. Thanks for the advice, I’ll keep you posted if anything changes. 

[matthewk]

DRBOB,
I haven’t tried it but I will first thing tomorrow morning. I’ll let you know. Thanks for the suggestion!

[matthewk]

Belassi,
Before making this product, I had never used it. I’m not really a fan of it from a compounding perspective because it takes twice the time to make. I believe the main draw for the customer we make this for is the ability to make specific claims about the (cringes) “Naturalness” of the product. 
 As to the soap scum, I can’t verify that claim. I haven’t ever noticed this result, having used this product in my own hair for about two weeks, nor have I heard a single customer complaint about it and it been on Walmart shelves for almost 2 years. Maybe the buyers of this product live in areas with softer water?

[matthewk]

You are absolutely correct Microformulation! Actually, I more than slightly misunderstand FIFRA, but I also was not clear that Castor oil is not an active in this formula it’s merely the prime suspect in the turbidity problem. It’s used as an emollient, so it falls to the FIFRA Inert list which was the link I provided above. The actives are Clove Leaf Oil and Cottonseed oil.

 DRBOB, I was attempting to be vague on the actives because this isn’t our formula, we license it through a third party and I don’t want to ruffle any feathers trying to solve this. Their chemist wasn’t at all concerned with the issue, stating it “performs as intended”. My thought is there’s probably a way to achieve what I achieved with the liposorb 20 I just don’t know what it is yet. 
 
Is there another way I can solubilize the castor oil? 

Thanks!

[matthewk]

I make products almost exclusively for the pet, grooming, and veterinary markets and what’s been stated here is all true, there’s is not much difference between pet shampoo and people shampoo in terms of function. Dogs, cats and horses all have a neutral PH. In terms of formulas, I make over a hundred different products and most of them, like shampoos, conditioners, ointments, sprays, lotions, colognes, even nail polishes are all, more or less, just variations of a few simple base formulations. It really depends what kinds of products you’re interested in making and JohnB’s advice is really the best. Find a product you like and try to make one similar. I would try to keep it relatively simple. We’ve tried marketing shampoos with a myriad of bells and whistle added, (panthenol, essential oils, aloe,) that perform better and that are expensive to make, but our best sellers, by far, are almost exclusively the simple ones with a catchy name, a pretty color and fragrance, and an eye catching label. If your interested in making medicated, therapeutic, or any products that make a claim, then do your research, do your lab work, and follow FDA and EPA guidelines, where applicable. If you’re interested in a particular formulation check chemical manufacturers web sites they often have formulas available, like here.  Read Perry’s article here. Actually, read this entire forum; the people who post here are highly-knowledgeable, serious professionals with a collective experience spanning centuries, intelligence by proxy!

Here’s a basic clear pet shampoo formula to get you started.
Pet Shampoo
70%      Water
1.7%     Chembetaine 
23%      SLS  - Sodium Lauryl Sulfate      
3.7%     CDEA  - cocamide diethanolamine (!)
.15%     Fragrance  (as desired) 
.23%     Citric Acid 50%   (adjust to 7)
1%        Salt  (adjust per viscosity required)
        

!Ruh Roh Raggy!
Depending on the market you’re interested in, or your customers chemical sensibilities, CDEA is a chemical you might want to find replacement for because it’s on the Prop65 list of hazardous chemicals. Mea-betaine blends like Amidex C-cm work relatively well with a little tinkering. 

[matthewk]

 It really depends on the type pearl your using. If your using powdered mica based pearls like magnapearl1000 or iriodin’s equivalent, It’s essentially an instant pearl effect when blended since it’s just mica and titanium dioxide.  Wax based pearls are definitely more finicky, requiring heating your batch to specific temps to blend. One consideration to be a aware of is to avoid force cooling waxed pearls. I’ve noticed these pearls look best when allowed to cool slowly and naturally. I was once told to force cool a batch to rush a product out and the pearl never quite set up, it just looked like a hazy opaque mess. Some wax based pearls also may wane in luster over time which is not the case for mica based pearls which seem very sparkly years later.There’s also a product called quick pearl that gives the wax based creamy pearl look, no heating required.

[matthewk]

I’m working with their chemist at the moment. In September they sent me a new formulation still SF1 based with a new surfactant blend which yielded similar results after a month in the oven. The problem is that each iteration requires time to measure the reaction and as I said before I’ve tried nearly every surfactant available to me with similar results. One chemist I spoke with over a year ago mentioned the issue could be simply the oxidation of the BPO42 destabilizing the formula, due to it’s instability. I was told that the suspension they use is for regulating transport, but also to mitigate the inherent oxidation. I also read that certain Benzoyl Peroxide products have a shelf life of three months once opened. I’m wondering if these surfactants are accelerating the oxidation process and if this instability could be a factor in our results.

[matthewk]

I appreciate the sentiment. My reticence to accept the title simply comes from my inexperience. I have a lot of practical experience making, refining, testing, and formulating products but I’m missing a lot of the fundamental understanding of the actual chemistry involved in these compound relationships. But I’m learning more everyday so I’ll gladly accept a trial membership into the SCC chapter, if you’ll still have me.

[matthewk]

Thanks very much for the response Mark.
I like your idea of moving away from SF1, since after trying so many surfactants it seems to be the common denominator. I’ve used Natrosol HRR in our ointments but never in a shampoo as a thickener, sounds interesting. I’ll see what I can come up with.
Thanks

[matthewk]

Hey Bobzchemist,
While my boss insists on calling me a chemist, I am NO such thing - a kindergarten chemist maybe. I’m a glorified compounder who does a lot of research and a lot of lab work. Hope you wont think less of me. I work in Scottdale by the way.

[matthewk]

Hello,
My name is Matthew and I work for a manufacturing company in Georgia that focuses mainly on the pet grooming and veterinary industries. I’m responsible for making about 230 products ranging from herbal and medicated shampoos, conditioners, lotions, and ointments, to nail polishes, hair dyes, colognes, cleaners, insecticides and adhesives. I’m always interested in learning more about the chemistry of my job and this site is an absolutely wonderful resource! Thanks Perry!