MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
-
Possibly, but all of these companies sell their serum for at least 50% less than Skinceuticals. Why license out your core claim (Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Ferulic Acid) to various companies who are going to sell their products at a significant discount to yours? -
@BobZ: Good point. In this particular case, various companies have had Vitamin CE Ferulic Acid serums on the market for some number of years now. The most notable being Paula’s Choice who uses the exact percentages of Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E and Ferulic Acid as in the patent. That goes right to the heart of the functional equivalence issue.
I am unaware of any patent violation claims against any of these companies by the patent holder (assignee). Perhaps they simply do not think the Doctrine of Equivalents applies, don’t think there is a violation, or don’t think it is worth their time and effort to pursue. -
@pma:
May I ask what brands are you purchasing and referring to in your posts? Frankly, none of the product LOI’s you have listed look like very good moisturizers to me, but that’s just my opinion.Are you a formulation chemist? If so, then perhaps you have found a market niche still that has a need … a very gentle, non-stinging moisturizer for sensitive skin.If it’s not alcohols or fragrances … well, knockout experiments on the products you have listed would take forever since there aren’t many commonalities between the ingredients in the products that cause the burning sensation.Question: You mentioned that you sometimes use these products to shave. Do you experience the burning sensation when you apply the moisturizers after you shave? Or, do they give your skin a burning sensation each and every time you use them? Could be razor burn.It may also be a cross-reaction between different products. For instance, you wash your face with product A, you shave with product B and then you apply moisturizer product C. Some ingredient in products A or B may be reacting with an ingredient in product C and that what is causing the burning sensation. -
The weak point in the patent is that it specifically states that the patented formulation has a pH of 2.5 to 3.0. There are many companies with CE Ferulic Acid serums on the market … at a pH of 3.1 to 3.5. But, most also vary their ingredients, by using other forms of Vitamin C, for instance. The patent also specifically states that the solvents are diethylene glycol and 1,2-Propanediol and that the preservative is Phenoxyethanol. There are lots of holes in the patent and several companies have exploited those weaknesses or oversights in the patented formulation.
The problem with the Lotioncrafter kit is that it specifically uses the exact ingredients as Skinceuticals per the patent. -
The easiest knockout experiment is: Don’t buy moisturizers that irritate your skin.
-
The only commonality seems to be that the two that do burn your skin both contain some kind of parfum/fragrance and the two that do not burn your skin don’t have any specific parfum/fragrance listed.
That would be my first guess … that perhaps you have sensitivity to certain fragrance ingredients. -
@pma:
Have you considered using Phenethyl Alcohol or Phenylpropanol, both of which have the fragrance of Rose and provide antimicrobial preservative boosting properties? -
This is an excellent forum! I have learned of ingredients from other board members that I would most likely not have found on my own that I have subsequently incorporated into my formulations. Invaluable to share information and experience with others in the field.
-
There are some things you can do on your own with a new formulation to have a good idea of stability & preservative efficacy before you send samples out the the lab for testing.(1) Freeze/Thaw & Stability Testing: For this you will need a small incubator or oven that heats up to a steady 113F (45C), a freezer set to -4C, a viscometer and a pH meter. The testing protocols are well established and you can readily find them on the internet. Simply follow the testing protocols.(2) Micobiology Testing: You can purchase from Schulke & Mayr Mikrocount Combi Agar Dip Slides. Very easy to use. Test your sample upon completion of the batch and again after 14 and 28 days of storage in the packaging that the product will be sold in. Hold the sample at room termperature. I also use the product in the packaging, as a consumer would, for 28 days, and micro test that sample at the beginning, midpoint and end of the 28 day period.If you get a “pass” after the above in-house testing, you can be pretty comfortable that your product will pass on a Preservative Challenge Test at the lab.It is a very inexpensive approach. Does not eliminate the need to send samples out to the lab, but at $300 to $500 per for Preservative Challenge Testing, could save you money in the long run.
-
Why? Diluting your preservative with water is not a good idea.
If your scale is positively “inaccurate” from 0.5 to 0.59 grams, it will also be positively “inaccurate” from 2.0 to 2.09 grams, won’t it be?
It’s not like adding a bit extra preservative is a bad thing unless you exceed regulatory limits. -
@Braveheart: Dr. Straetmann’s UK-based distributor info is below. They have some nice options for “green” preservatives. Also, Schulke & Mayr will have a UK distributor.
Infinity Ingredients Ltd.Arc House
Terrace Road South
Binfield, Berkshire
RG42 4 PZ
Great Britainhttp://www.infinity-ingredients.co.uk
Mr. Andrew Goodwin
T +44 1344 397 768 -
Take a look at the chemical structure of Sodium Benzoate and the structure of Sodium Anisate … very similar. You might consider Dermasoft 1388 from Dr. Straetmann’s (Germany) plus some Salisguard EZ as your natural preservatives for this product. Also, look at the chemical structure of Potassium Sorbate compared to Sodium Levulinate … same similarity.As for toothpaste without preservatives. Frankly, I just do not understand the whole “Preservative-Free” concept. To me, that is an unnecessarily risky business proposition. Besides the potential for an embarrassing, and perhaps business-ending, product recall, there is also the liability issue. Just try explaining in a lawsuit that your “Preservative-Free” formulation actually did indeed have preservatives and was safe for use.Let me get back to you on surfactant options.
-
Yes, that works. Yes, you can find commercial formulations with the percentages of each ZnO and Ti02 referenced above.
As MakingSkincare noted above, without a homogenizer, you won’t get an even dispersion. You can add dispersion aids such as C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate to help. -
Yes, try PureBulk.com
What kind of a claim do they want to make with beta-carotene? At 0.01% I suspect it will do absolutely … nothing. -
Oh! Don’t misunderstand my post. Salisguard EZ will indeed help with preservation, but would only be one part of a preservation strategy. It needs to be supplemented with an antifungal.
Just curious … why do you not want to include preseratives? In a toothpaste, I would think this to be quite risky … much more so than in a topical skincare product. -
I would venture to say that Saliguard EZ is a combination of preservative boosters, but would be wary of using Salisguard EZ by itself as a preservative. EHG will give you some effect against microorganisms as a preservative, but it is not broad spectrum. 1,3-Propanediol will also boost preservative efficacy by binding free water.It would appear that you do not have anything in there to provide protection against yeast & mold. You might try throwing in some Sodium Anisate & Sodium Levulinate to round out your coverage.
-
Micronized, in both cases. No point in spending extra money on oil dispersible if it costs more.
-
Yes, no problem. With micronized ZnO the white film will not be as obvious. You can also use a mixture of Titanium Oxide (7.5%) and Zinc Oxide (5%) which will give you an SPF of roughly 30 or just ZnO as you have done in the past.
-
Yes, you can use Retinol and other forms of Vitamin A in cosmetics. For example, Retinol, Retinol Palmitate, Retinol Retinoate … no problem.
You cannot use Retinoic Acid in cosmetics … that is a form of Vitamin A that can only be used in prescription products. -
No, Gluconolactone has minimal, if any preservation effect. So, you need to supplement the potassium sorbate with a bactericide, a chelating agent and some citric acid.
-
@nasrins … because most are organic acids (at least the ones that I work with)
@braveheart: Yes, Gluconolactone and Sodium Benzoate are commonly used together and are ECOCert. -
What are the components of the natural preservatives you were given? It is very difficult to find a preservative that is effective at pH above 6.
-
Thanks Alam. I will give that a try. Appreciate it!
-
Green Coffee Berry Extract fits the bill perfectly.
-
You can consider organic Green Tea extracts that are minimally-filtered that have a dark brown or green color and would provide the antioxidant benefit you are looking for.