MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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It all depends on whether or not this product is being sold to the professional market (estheticians, spas, etc.) or the consumer market and in what jurisdiction you’re selling the product.
In the US, AHA formulations for the consumer market must be pH 3.5 or higher and labeled with the Sunburn Alert warning. If you’re selling into the professional market, then you’re fine at those pH levels.
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You can find preservatives that are certified by the Natural Products Association on their website.
Remember, preservation is not simply a matter of add one ingredient. You really should consider a hurdle technology approach incorporating chelants, glycols, pH adjusters, potentiators that disrupt the microbial cell wall.
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What is the pH of your formula? That would be the first bit of information required to guide you to some acceptable options on Preservatives and Preservative Potentiators
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I have 3 stainless tables set up in a U and I sit in the middle. One table is a weigh station with ingredients & scales and heating elements. Spin 90 degrees to the next table equipped with mixers and homogenizer. Spin 90 degrees to the next table with pH meter and associated finishing equipment/additives and containers for bottling. No walking required.
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If you want to remove the Cocamide DEA, you can replace it with Coco Betaine (different from Cocamidopropyl Betaine) which should help with your thickening.
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Sherpas have lips?
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Note that Mark said that the Organic Seal on his client’s product is not the USDA NOP Seal. The use of Organic Aloe Vera Powder is simply not allowed under UDSA NOP Organic certification to consider your entire water phase as an Organic ingredient …. You will only get credit for the 0.5% Aloe Powder that you add, not the water.
The only other Organic Seal that I am aware of in the US would be the NSF Organic Seal … perhaps this allowed under the NSF certification program, but I am doubtful as I have also had products NSF certified.
I’ve seen companies go so far as to have a graphic artist create a mock “Organic” seal that is nothing more than an artists rendering … it is not a certification certificate by any legitimate body.
Mark … noted, I will drop you an e-mail
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In the US, you cannot get Organic Certification by adding Organic Aloe Vera Powder to water and then claiming that it’s Organic Aloe Vera Juice. The Certification bodies will not certify it.
Note the reference product claims 70%+ Organic Certified ingredients, but it is not a “Made With Organic Ingredients” certified product.
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If you have a concern, you can always add some glyceryl caprylate (and) glyceryl undecylenate … it’s an oil-soluble preservative.
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Semi permanent super glue … that would seem to be a good starting point.
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It makes perfect sense that Amazon would be cracking down on this … GlycolicPeel KitchenHomeCrafter makes and sells on Amazon a 70% Glycolic Acid Peel (this is medical grade and can only be administered by a physician). Consumers buy it and … duh … several people get burns.
Who are the injured consumers going to try to sue … Amazon or GlycolicPeel KitchenHomeCrafter?
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I would advise that you perhaps start at 0.1% and work your way up from there until you reach the optimal pain/pleasure threshold. Agree with Doreen … 1% Menthol on privates … ouch!
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What exactly do you mean by “natural serum” … that could either be a water-based serum, an oil-based serum or an emulsion … the answer all depends on what type of serum you are developing. The answers above all assume a water-based serum, but is it?
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Yes, but I’ve never had any issues with crystallization. I only use this preservative when specifically requested by the client.
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Salicylic Acid is oil soluble … when it is dissolved in oil (or in a cream or in an aqueous solution) the SA will be carried into the hair follicle in the sebum where it functions as a lubricant to prevent dead skin cells from sticking together. So, yes, SA is effective when dissolved in an oil.
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Like I said … check into the man-hours required to maintain a set of cultures relative the frequency with which you perform PCT tests and then determine whether it is worth it or not for your operation.
Yes, QC plate count testing on batches is cheap … that’s a whole lot different than PCT testing. That’s why I recommended checking into lyophilized cultures that you can just reconstitute when you need if you do PCT on low volume.
I would be interested in learning about what you are currently using and what you find out regarding maintaining cultures.
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This LOI is so out of compliance you will never, ever figure it out as they are listing ingredient name where those ingredients simply do not exit.
Best guess would be the Sorbitan Monoesters are one of the Span emulsifiers … perhaps Sorbitan Oleate for this application and the Cetearyl Monoester is perhaps Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate.
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Short Answer: No
Unless you are going to offer this as a commercial service to third-party clients, it really is not going to make any sense to set up your own in-house PET testing lab for just your client base. It would cost you probably 5X to do it in-house as opposed to sending it to a testing lab set up to perform these tests.
If you are intent on doing this, see if you can procure lyophilized, standardized cultures of your test microbes so you don’t have to spend inordinate time maintaining your culture bases.
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@doreen81:
You should disperse the Carbomer in the water phase, not the oil phase, so it can hydrolyze. Best you homogenize, then neutralize the emulsion to form the carbomer gel.
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Well, they can legitimately claim “Preservative-Free” in the sense that they do not use one of the traditionally listed/approved preservatives for cosmetics. Personally, I don’t quite understand the marketing appeal of “preservative-free” … I do have skin sensitivity to Potassium Sorbate, for instance, so I avoid it, but I don’t have issues with preservatives in general. I’d rather have a safe products as opposed to an unpreserved product.
I think what they have come up with in the development of a natural preservation approach is really quite clever.
But, if they are intent of wasting their reputation on some non-sensical MIRR selective microbe claims, well … it is what it is.
The skin microbiome is estimated to comprise over 1,000 various bacteria. So, all of those bacterial are “good bacteria” … the only ones that are “bad” are those that cause skin conditions/disease. The concept that you could create a simple skin cleanser that would selectively promote “good” bacteria over “bad” bacteria is utter nonsense.
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Well, there are only two options here: (1) Their natural hurdle technology actually works and passed PCT; or, (2) It does not work and they are selling a completely unpreserved product. Since they’re based in the UK, they would have had to have done a Safety Survey AND Registered their product with the regulators.
I suspect that their preservation system does indeed work in looking at the components …
(1) low pH (sugar extract),
(2) rupture the bacterial cell wall (saponins) ((works in combination with Salt)) … saponins rupture the bacterial cell wall and the salt in solution creates an osmotic barrier to remove the contents from the ruptured cell wall
(3) Essential Oils with antimicrobial activity, synergistically combined.Pity they created this ridiculous marketing hype MIRR “selective bacteria” spin … same nonsense as probiotics for the skin, when they had a very interesting approach to a natural preservation system.
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Now, the MIRR Technology … that’s where they lose credibility … a preservative system does not know the difference between “good” bacteria and “bad” bacteria … it will kill all bacteria that are susceptible to it’s effects.
I suspect MIRR Technology is not a single ingredient, but the combination of sugar extract, salt, the essential oils and the saponins working synergistically to form a natural preservation system.
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Actually, this is probably a low pH product … the unrefined sugar extract is essentially Glycolic Acid. Add to that a high salt environment and essential oils that do exhibit antimicrobial activity (Orange, Clove, Cinnamon) and you’ve created a fairly hostile environment for microbial growth. I suspect you’re probably in the pH range of 3.0 to 4.0.
And it’s quite possible that the saponins permeate the bacterial cell wall.
So, when you break it down, they’re really using hurdle technology with natural ingredients.
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“Sprinkle into cold or hot water and mix well. Typical use level 5-30%“
That has to be a typo … more like 0.5% to 3.0% would be a typical use level. -
There are various forms of Emulsifying Wax that each contain different ingredients and, therefore, emulsify under different conditions.
If, for instance, your Emulsifying Wax INCI is: Beeswax, Lecithin, Carnauba Wax, then it is a “soaping” emulsifier and you’re going to have to include NaOH or KOH the get the pH up for it to emulsify. So, if you give the INCI of your Emulsifying Wax, that would help.
And, as Mark pointed out above, your Oil & Butters load should be more in the range 11% to 13% (total) and you’re way, way over that.
The Stearic Acid, likewise, will require a base to raise the pH … it is also a “soaping” emulsifier. If your Emulsifying Wax INCI is: Cetylstearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, then you don’t need a base. The Stearic Acid will remain unreacted, but that is not a problem it can give a nice skin sensorial.
Stick with the Vitamin E … that has nothing to do with your problem.