MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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No, ULProspector is restricted to professionals in the personal care industry who are either development chemists, contract manufacturers or personal care products companies. You must have credentials, website, business e-mail and/or membership in Society of Cosmetic Chemists, for instance. They do check all of the above before approving your application.
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Yes, Phenylpropanol is compatible with most ingredients. If you mix it with Pentylene Glycol and Propanediol it will go into solution without appreciably clouding your formula (if it is clear). I would add it as the last ingredient in your formulations.
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You might have an easier time if you used Phenylpropanol + Pentylene Glycol + Propanediol. There isn’t a commercial blend with this exact combination, but you can purchase the ingredients separately and make your own blend.
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Yes, you should use a proper preservative. Herbal extracts are not going to properly preserve a product. It’s a huge liability if your toothpaste becomes contaminated and people get ill from it. This is not an area where you want to take risks.
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No, Catherine … I was addressing the previous post unrelated to your post about the preservatives which is the topic of this thread that has veered off course.
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College degrees, professional certifications / organizations and titles exist for a reason … to establish that one is indeed trained in the discipline and skilled in the art. And to clarify who is a trained professional versus a yokel with an internet connection.
The issue you raise is pertinent in this sense … this is a site designed for cosmetic chemists to share information, not misinformation. So, of course, it is fair for professional chemists to correct any misinformation they come upon. Nothing wrong with that at all.
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I don’t think you “did anything wrong” … where are you located? In a hot, humid climate that cools down at night?
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This reminds me of a saying “You don’t even know what you don’t know”
Since this forum is open to anyone who wants to join, many of whom are new to the field of cosmetic chemistry, tags have their value so one can differentiate between a poster who is a formally-trained professional and one who is not. I’ve seen many things posted as fact by people who are not formally-trained that are just plain wrong. Someone unskilled in the field would not be able to pick up on those distinctions.
LOL! … I love the idea of not using titles to eliminate bias against people who may or may not know what they are talking about. Brilliant.
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@MJL:
Yes, it is a very gentle surfactant. Yes, you can use it solo if you want to. It is not easily thickened is the only drawback.
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You capped it when the cream in the pot was too hot.
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Doreen … you should have Perry post “Pharmacist” on your profile. That way you could remind everyone without having to say a word about it. It’s always nice to know if a poster is credentialed in a scientific field when reading their posts.
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You have a couple of issues with your formula:
(1) Lemon Oil is very photosensitizing and irritating to the skin … you might consider something more on the order of 0.5% (max) or less
(2) You do not need hydrogenated castor oil and polysorbate 80 to get the Lemon oil to integrate into your cream. You can eliminate both of these ingredients. Simply add a higher HLB co-emulsifier to complement your Glyceryl Stearate SE and you’re done.
(3) Your Rice Bran Wax is quite high … you might cut that back to 6% to 8%.
The reason for your separation is that you are only using one low HLB emulsifier and an inordinately high percentage of wax, so your total formula HLB balance is out of whack.
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You might find this helpful: http://www.newdirections.com.au/articles/article.php?aid=133
INGREDIENTS (%):
Water - 64.4
Aloe Vera Powder 0.5
Solagum Tara - 0.3
Coconut Oil - 18
Olyvoyl Emulsifier - 3.8
Shea Butter - 8
Floraesters K100 - 2
Vegelane - 1
Soya Lecithin - 0.5
Microcare SB - 1
Lavender EO - 0.5
Citric Acid to pH 5.8.Also note that your Oils/Butters total 27% of your total formula, which is very high. You might want to cut you Coconut Oil down to 8% and Shea Butter down to 6% and increase the Olivoil Emulsifier to 6% - 8% and pair it with Glyceryl Stearate Citrate.
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My goodness … what a mess. Sorry to see anyone go through this as it is completely unnecessary. I do hope it all works out for you.
The moral of the story is: If it’s not documented and executed by both parties in advance, then you have at best a verbal agreement, which can be found to be binding contractually, but she can always claim something different from you and you have no proof otherwise. “Handshake” business is never a good practice.
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So, if I understand this correctly @GabyD … you are now going to continue to use the original preservative that caused burning and failed the PCT …
… you manufactured two large batches of product without confirming that is passed PCT after adjusting the pH up
… and, you gave a formulator a deposit on the IP, but without having signed an IP agreement concurrent with making the payment?
There’s a clear pattern emerging here of poor business judgement. No offense, but all of these appear to be self-inflicted wounds that have nothing to do with the formula per-se. It seems you need to reflect on that some.
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Yes, it will … but, if you want more accurate control over the pH adjustment, I would recommend you make a 25% Sodium Phytate solution and add it while you are measuring the pH.
What is your final pH btw?
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@Jar:
I find it best to include only the required base ingredients in Phase A and Phase B to form the emulsion … and then add all extracts, fragrances, preservatives and pH adjusters during cool down. Add each individually.
You never know which ingredients may affect the formation of the emulsion, so keep that as simple as possible. If you do have an ingredient that breaks the emulsion, when you add the extraneous ingredients at cool down, you will very quickly identify which ingredient presents a conflict.
You can save a lot of time & trial/error using this approach:
Phase A:
- Distilled Water - 66.8%
- Glycerin - 1.8%
- Xanthan Gum - 0.2%
Phase B:
- Rice Bran Oil - 5.3%
- Montanov L - 5%
- Fractionated Coconut Oil - 3%
- Oat Oil - 3%
- Cetyl Alcohol - 3%
- Tocopherol 95 - 0.2%
Phase C:
- Silk Amino Acids - 2%
- Ginger Root Extract - 2%
- Ginseng Root Extract - 2%
- Seaweed Extract - 2%
- Hydrolized Rice Protein - 2%
- Phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin - 1%
- Fragrance - xx
- Sodium Phytate - 0.2%
Your formula looks just fine.
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Since it’s an anhydrous formula, you should be perfectly fine on the preservation.
As to the oil, it all depends on the oils you are using as they all have different shelf lives. You can add antioxidants such as Rosemary CO2 and Mixed Tocopherols to help extend the shelf life.
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Well, the tales of @GabyD and @Betterusername are failures on the part of the chemists they hired on the most basic business fundamentals … client communications and delivering on what you were paid/hired to do. I think there’s a word that.
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Pity … sorry to hear you both had this bad experience.
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Here you go:
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Why do you not just hire competent, professional chemist(s) who are members of the Society Of Cosmetic Chemists?
You have to be credentialed to be accepted into SCC, so an organization has already done the credential screening for you … SCC memberships does not mean the individual will be a talented chemist or have great business ethics, but at least you know they are an actual chemist.
Many of us service clients on a global basis and the only real drawbacks are the time/expense of shipping samples through customs and time differentials for communications. But, other than that … it makes no difference what country you are located in. Now, having your product manufactured is another matter as you will want to do that in-country.
I’m curious if this “Carol” is an actual chemist or a poser?
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You can pretty much use any thickener you want in a Serum … gums, cellulosics, hyaluronic acid, carbomer and other thickening polymers … it’s all a function of the cost & texture profile you want. “Serums” generally contain a small number of ingredients in high concentrations and are thickened up. Yes, the are marketed as boosters.
A “Toner” is generally astringent-based, such as Witch Hazel, with other ingredients that “tone” the skin, are water-thin and also contain hydrating ingredients, skin brightening ingredients and the like.
These are marketing terms, but consumers have baked in their minds, the above differences between products marketed as serums and toners.
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I highly recommend that you also do a knock-out batch on the THD Ascorbate … that is not necessarily, nor definitively, your problem and best if you confirm it.
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Yes, you certainly could pair SCI with one of the Glucosides as co-surfactants. The glucosides are safe, but do cause irritancy in 1% of the total population. Since so much focus was placed on Decyl Glucoside as “Allergen Of The Year” a couple years back, you might want to use Coco-Glucoside instead. How much Coco-Glucoside to use all depends on how much SCI you are using and the desired viscosity of your end produt … the glucosides are notoriously difficult to thicken. But, something in the 5% to 10% range should be fine.