MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Are you asking if you can purchase a commercial product manufactured by Company X that is sold in Walmart, say directly from Walmart, register it for sale in Europe and then resell it as a registered product in Europe, without Company X’s involvement or consent?
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I would advise you to steer clear of such discussions because there is no one answer and frankly, it does not matter, unless your concoction is really visually unappealing.
If your product performs well and does its job, it’s going to end up being whatever color it needs to be to get the job done. Now, if “clear” is a client criteria, I generally just have them show me a product that they consider to be “clear” and then make the appropriate ingredient selections with that in mind.
The only defiinition that really matters is that of the person paying you to develop their product.
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Regarding Tyger … I’ve never used their products, am only aware that they were marketing a “natural” phenxoyethanol … if you are curious enough, you might ask them some questions.
I suspect that what they mean by natural is nature identical manufactured from renewable feedstocks. But, since I am highly likely to never use their products, not a line of inquiry I have time to pursue.
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Correction: The natural Phenoxyethanol is from Tyger Scientific. I’ve never used it since my client base generally cannot use phenoxyethanol as it is prohibited by several of their retailers.
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PhilGeis said:Pharma - not familair with the Velsan ether.
undecylenates - not much experience there. Think you know i’m an old tradtional guy so had a lot of preservastives focused on fungi. I do understand it’s more of a fungistat than -cide.
My biggest frustration is the great number of effectively useless combinations marketed as “broad spectrum”, wide pH range , “nartural, blah blah: set up to mislead well-intentioned folks like domicanica.
I’ve quite a bit of experience using undecylenate. The main problem is not their effectiveness per se, but they really blow the viscosity of most emulsion, so you have to restrict usage to 0.3%. I would classify them as more of a co-preservative or preservative booster.
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Correct, it does not have to be an airless pump … any closure that prevents direct user contact with the product in the container is better than an open jar into which the user dips their fingers.
If you are developing products that contain retinol or l-ascorbic acid, for instance, they could benefit from an airless pump depending on the product format. Creams, lotions, gels etc. work well in airless pumps. You may get leakage if you try to use products without sufficient viscosity in an airless pump dispenser.
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Correct, I think the max solubility of MAP is 7.5% … it’s just a mess of an ingredient to work with.
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domicanica said:@MarkBroussard yes that’s correct. My market is generally unaccepting of chemicals so I’m trying to find alternative solutions. From brief research I can see that honeysuckle extract is somewhat similar to parabens but is this effective on its own?
I’ll do some research on dehydroacetic and see if I can find it and any of the glycols in small quantities, thanks a lot.
@dominicana:
That’s what I thought. No, I would not recommend using Honeysuckle extracts on its own, pair up with another preservative. Here’s some info on Honeysuckle extracts as preservatives http://www.campo-research.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Personal-Care-Article-HoneySuckle-Barbara-Olioso.pdf … Barbara and I collaborate on projects on occassion.
If you are having to purchase from re=packers? … then you might want to look at Benzyl Alcohol / Dehydroacetic Acid which is EcoCert.
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I see your predicament. The issue with trying to combine Ascorbic Acid with SAP or MAP is that they function at different pH levels, so you have a fundamental conflict in trying to combine those ingredients.
So your development model is a Vitamin C Serum with Ascorbic Acid loaded at 20%?
I find the quest to use an indordinately high level of Vitamin C somewhat amusing as it is merely a marketing gimmick and has nothing to do with the optimal effectiveness of the product.
My sympathies to you.
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I would not recommend that combination, per se. As I mentioned, if you look at the chemical structures of Sodium Levulinate and Sodium Anisate you will find that they are quite similar to sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate. I am assuming you are trying to use a natural-derived presevation approach.
If you look at the chemical structure of Honeysuckle Extracts you will find they are very close to parabens.
Troy also offers a nature-derived Phenoxyethanol if your market will accept Phenoxyethanol. If that is not acceptable, you might try coupling 1388 with Dehydroacetic Acid.
An approach that might work for you would be:
1388 + Dehydroacetic Acid + Pentylene Glycol + Caprylyl Glycol + Chelating Agent + Closed Packaging + pH<6.0 … depending on the product format.
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There are various reasons to use airless pumps. Primarily, to keep the end users fingers from coming into contact with the product in the container, to keep the product from coming directly into contact with air as you have pointed out.
You would not want to put a product like a Vitamin C serum in an airless pump. Primarily because the product left in the orifice after use would form a salt deposit when the solvents evaporate leaving a salt plug in the orifice.
Are airless pumps worth the investment. Yes, for the right product format.
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I have used Dermosoft 1388 in several formulations as a preservation component. Sodium Levulinate and Sodium Anisate are essentially natural analogs of Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate. It sounds as though you are scouring the Dr. Straetmans catalog for a solution?
Do they work … Yes. But, you have to use the hurdle approach:
(1) pH < 6.0
(2) Chelating Agent
(3) Glycols and Preservative Boosters
(4) Packaging … make sure the end user cannot dip their paws into the product packagingBut, they are pricey.
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I would first consider a couple of questions:
(1) Why 20% Vitamin C? More is not better … enough is enough should be your guideline in developing your product. I would advise you to not get hung up on 20% Vitamin C, but instead suggest you research what is the optimal amount of Vitamin C to use for each of the various variants of Vitamin C.
(2) There are few ways to delay the oxidation of Ascorbic Acid in aqueous solutions … You might want to study patents on the stabilization of Ascorbic Acid.
I would frankly avoid using MAP altogether as it is more difficult to formulate with than SAP.
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You will be able to more approximate a 1:1 substitution of Ascorbic Acid with SAP than with MAP. The reason is that MAP, when used at anything above 7%, will leave a white film on the skin (and your equipment), so that would be an upper limit on MAP as it affects your product’s consumer acceptability.
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The key to finding the answer to your question is:
Take a look at the chemical structure of MgOH and Sodium Bicarbonate. Note that the anions are quite different. What would happen to those anions in the presence of water (ie: sweat)?
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Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:@Grallotion:
Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate. I’ve worked with both, and while I don’t believe the “entourage effect” has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.
Are you saying….the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)…is the lack of secondary components? (I can live with that.)
Where I have been buying my CBD isolate…they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC. With pain in mind…if I were to blend one of these in…which would you choose?
I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
I find it about impossible to find dosing for the cannabinoids (this of course is intentional), so any idea on dosing for a cream? I am using 1% of CBD Isolate….I assume I will keep that the same, and just add some CBG. Since it is a pricey ingredient (more than double the cost of CBD), what level would I have to include to hopefully create an effect?
Obviously inclusion rate hinges on potency….so let’s use this as an example:
You formulate CBD products to a target load of CBD (or CBG) in milligrams per unit. It looks like you’re making a cream with 1,000 mg CBD, which is a good strength for a pain management product. It’s completely up to you on the strength. You might do 1,000 mg CBD + 200 - 400 mg CBG, for instance.
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I routinely use SCI at 10% in Shampoos without any issue with precipitation.
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Graillotion said:MarkBroussard said:@Grallotion:
Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate. I’ve worked with both, and while I don’t believe the “entourage effect” has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.
Are you saying….the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)…is the lack of secondary components? (I can live with that.)
Where I have been buying my CBD isolate…they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC. With pain in mind…if I were to blend one of these in…which would you choose?
I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
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The key to working with SCI is to first grind it into a fine powder. Add the powder to room temperature water while stirring at 200RPM. Then begin heating it up to 90C or so.
It’s best if you use a jacketed container to keep the heat even or immerse the vessel in a hot water bath. It also helps if you cover the opening to the container … again, it’s all about keeping an even distribution of heat over the entire surface of the vessel.
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@Grallotion:
I don’t know anyone who sells Rosin in small amounts. What you would be purchasing is CBD Rosin diluted in a carrier oil and tested to ensure the THC content is below 0.3%. Some suppliers are open about their extraction process be it CO2, solvent or press.
Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate. I’ve worked with both, and while I don’t believe the “entourage effect” has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract. If complete THC-free is your requirement, that will be a challenge to source.
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Your best bet for CBD is CBD Rosin obtained via a relatively low temperature pressing. That will give you to full spectrum of the plant terpenes and cannabinoids. It is a solvent-less process … just plant, heat and pressure.
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You going to need at least 30% combined Ethanol + Butylene Glycol and heat to keep the SA in solution. You need to heat both phases … this is highly unlikely to work at room temp.
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(1) Are you heating your Phase A so it is at the same temperature as Phase B when you add Phase B to Phase A?
(2) I would prepare Phase A without the Sodium Phytate. Heat Phase A and Phase B to the same temperature then combine Phase A and Phase B.
(3) Add Sodium Phytate as a pH adjuster once the combined Phase A/Phase B cools to room temperature and add QS Sodium Phytate to get the pH to 3.5 to 4.0
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Here’s your motivation:
“Previously, Unilever faced legal action over this ingredient and its Suave Professionals Keratin Infusion products. That complaint triggered a recall of the products in 2012 and a 2016 settlement worth $10.25 million.“
That’s a $3.5 million payday for a lawyer on the plaintiff’s side of the lawsuit.
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@Perry:
I have sensitive skin, so virtually any ingredient or combination could have caused that reaction. Particularly fragrance. It’s not that the product was not well formulated, it’s just that my skin reacted to it.
As you know, despite your best efforts, someone, somewhere will have a reaction to any cosmetic product you develop.