MaidenOrangeBlossom
Forum Replies Created
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Maybe try cationic guar, gums have a stabiliing effect and CG also enhances foaming so it might work very well. I don’t remember ever using or making a product that didn’t eventually seperate. Most directions on products I buy instruct to shake well. So it might not be that bad. put it in a dark container and tell people to shake.
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Its a tricky formula. You generally need a 1:1 urea and water, that leaves only 10% for the rest of the ingredients, most of which is preservative, ph ingredients…Because urea is a crystal, it tends to crystalize. Are you trying to make a cream? Your best bet with such high urea is to experiment with a water and urea 1:1 and forget about dreams for something emollient. Glycerin tends to help but unless you use an airtight jar, it’ll dry and crystalize.
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This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by MaidenOrangeBlossom.
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This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by
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I hate clove but its such an amazing scent when combined in small amounts with other ingredients. I used it in my lemongrass lotion and it was one of my favorite scents. I hate lemongrass and clove but combined in small amounts is very enticing.
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It can start to have a fishy smell at any percentage but by around the 13% and up it is noticeable. Its also expensive so you don’t need a lot. Most formulators use a fatty alcohol or other co conditioner with BTMS. I highly recommend using more BTMS 25 than a fatty alcohol for an extra lux feel but its not necessary. Some people use far more of the fatty alcohols than the rich conditioning agent.
Start with min 25% to experiment and then go up. I use almost 40% which is a lot but my conditioner bars are very well balanced and delux. Its probably one of few items I’ve ever made that I could stake my career on. Try a basic formula first before spending a lot of time and money. You can literally do two formulas with two ingredients and make a very mini conditioner bar. Try one with more BTMS and one with more fatty alcohol or alternative agent. Use it and see what type of feel you prefer and what price point you’re aiming for.
Once you have an idea for the right BTMS level you can add a lipid like a butter or oil or both. Had someone told me this, I would have saved so much time and money! You’ll notice a huge difference. IMO you need a min of 10% lipids, although I’ve seen recipes with half that. After doing 3 tests, anything under 10% lipids in a simple bar formula didn’t have the same lux feel but it is possible. When I tried it with 15%, my hair was a little greasy but I didn’t balance it correctly.
Then slowly add the actives and preservatives. Oat is extra delux. I did a knock out formula and by far the oat not only had a lux feel in the shower but helped balance the lipid profile so my hair wasn’t greasy. At the end of the day, you could get away with just a bar made of BTMS and hair will be just fine. But marketing and how it feels while using it gives a high subjective rating. Most women will also leave it on a few minutes, just barely long enough to allow actives to be slightly beneficial. But most of it washes away. What I noticed was how the water/liquid/actives helped balance the lipids. It was too hard to come up with a 4 ingredient conditioner that was the perfect balance that performed as well as my OG recipe.
Otherwise, its very simple to make and you don’t really need a lot of ingredients even for marketing.
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CCT (triglyceride): 12% Never used but assuming its the lipid
Surfactant with HLB 11: 5% Is this your emulsifier? If so you may have to tweak, you need the right amount for the lipid qty
Cetearyl alcohol : 2% Looks good
stearyl alcohol: 4% Ok but you don’t always need two types of fatty alcohols, this might make it too thick
Shea butter: 4% This is good amount, you can even use more but butters are fickle so you have to experiment. Depending on formula, using less wouldn’t give it a lux appeal since shea is very highly regarded
WATER PHASE:
Water: qsp
Glycerin: 5% No problem
xanthan gum: 0,4% This is sometimes too much but good for stabilizing fickle formulas
COOL DOWN PHASE: Preservative + Perfume + Vit E = 2,3% 2% is high percentage preservative and 3% is high percentage perfume and vitamin e. Make sure these ingredients are compatible with the formula and put in during the right phase. My lotions would always destabilize when I used optiphen during the cool down process, guar helped but gums can also pill.
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Some need to be dispersed into the oil phase and some in the water phase. Some need mild heating to avoid crystallization while others are water soluble. Tepid to lightly warm is a good middle ground. I’ve made a serum in cold water after it cooled down and it was ok. If you go to the ingredient website sometimes they have a formulation guide. I use lotion crafters.
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Its the only way I can sleep. I can no longer use it due to eczema but I put a drop on my pillow and it works better than ambien! I actually found it was the easiest EO to blend. It works in everything. It’s so powerful in healing scars and minor wounds that I’m really in awe of what it can do. But sadly can no longer use. It was also an EO in my pet bug repellant formula which was so effective that, after using for one season, I never had a single issue with fleas, bugs, ticks permanently. I stopped using all EO’s on pets with the exception of a calming air spray that is unusually effective. It has lavender and catnip.
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Perfuming is not an easy science to learn. I started off with making essential oil perfumes which almost everybody across the board did not like. But after a few years of experience I formulated a widely beloved proprietary scent. My friend who was a professional perfumer’s only advice was to experiment. After years of trying to improve my perfuming skills, I agree that experimenting is the simplest and possibly the only practical thing you can do. Scents are so delicate that there’s no way to judge what will work or why its different in different products. Do you by chance have a scent in mind? For instance certain FO’s or EO’s compliment or mask scents. Geranium is an excellent masking scent. Vetiver, benzoin, vanilla, are powerful anchors. If you’re using a premade FO blend, it is often made with strength in mind, basically it’s supposed to work. I’ve only had to use 1% or more FO’s in products with ingredients that are incredibly strong smelling even in small quantities like coco butter.
If you can let me know what scent profile you’re trying to achieve, I might have an idea.
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Was the oil infused with turmeric powder or dehydrated root? Maybe try experimenting with turmeric essential oil and see if you get the same problem.
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Natural. Vegan. Cruelty free. Fair trade. Handmade. Fragrance free….I could go on and on with how misleading these words are. Best to stay far away from these claims unless your client is hell bent on requiring this level of marketing.
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Off the top of my head, the lipid profile is sparse. Fats tend to stick. I personally have never been able to successfully deploy guar in my conditioning formulas but everyone else has so I am not sure of the entire formula. My conditioners stick like a mother. Its literally the best conditioner so I keep the formula top secret. However, in comparison I use far more lipids. About 16%, its thick enough when I melt the bar down. The BTMS level looks good but you can even lower it 1-2 percent and add a secondary fatty acid. I avoid silicones so I don’t know how it works in your formula but I’ve been able to achieve similar shine with cupuacu butter and glycerin.
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Its very underappreciated for what it does. Its a must have.
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I can’t see how it would be stable at 60%, I’m guessing that either people heat it lightly to dissolve the crystals or its sold in small amounts. Its such a sticky solid ingredient that if there is a way to process it, I’d like to know.
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The doctor is likely mistaken about the T. Most doctors don’t take pharmaceutical or compounding courses so they often don’t understand that urea cream doesn’t require an active pharmaceutical ingredient like T. Most people want one product to do everything but whatever this is treating, it won’t be as effective. For a 45% urea product, you would literally only have room for maybe 2-3 drops of oil, pea size amount of butter, a dimes worth of humectant. Best to maybe have 2-3 different products.
If she insists on a 45% product, there wont be any room to add an medical grade anti fungal etc.
For example for stubborn heel cracks, a 40% urea is a good enough but then adding a second layer of jojoba with glycerin is very effective but worth the mess, and of course any topical meds a doctor might prescribe. Once you start working with urea you’ll be able to see strong limitations. It will generally always end up crystalizing after some months. I’m sure there are chemists who made the product that you found who have the capability but I also wonder what machinery they’re using too.
With urea, you have to add a chelator and at min a 1:1 water ratio for optimal stability. I am not sure where PG comes in but would be worth a try. I think its interesting if someone has figured a way to avoid the crystallization.
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Thats a rough starting point but there are variables. Some ingredients like hyaluronic acid are less stable in terms of emulsifying, so you might need more emulsifier. Or you might need a different type of emulsifier, co emulsifier, stabilizer like gums etc. What texture were you trying to achieve? Different combinations of the above mentioned can result in extreme variance of basic form and feel. For example across the board I prefer using BTMS as my emulsifier. I’ve never had an issue with texture, it works well in everything. You generally need so little that along with either a co emulsifier or stabilizer like a thickner, I can make anything. The only caveat is that I have never had it tested in a lab for stability. Only testing was literally using it for years.
Also the sheer and when you add ingredients can highly affect a formulation. Like I mentioned, most of my preservatives destabilized emulsions so I’ve had to ask the forum many times when to add but it still didn’t help much so I had to include more emulsifier which can thicken a formula. Then I added a gum which helped so you can see that a good starting point in determining why a formula is unstable is to test the emulsifier first by adding a little more or trying a different one. Thats just the starting point though. Hope it works.
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I don’t know how they did that, if it can be done that’s incredible. The packaging looks fairly air tight. They must have figured out a way to incorporate the urea without a 1:1 water ration and used PG instead. I’ve never used PG due to the potential allergens but the heels would probably be ok.
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Very straight and on the thin side. The way it was made, it doesn’t weigh hair down or make it greasy. But I used a combinations of light and emollient butters and oils. But what helps are the water based ingredients. I experimented with a simple formula but it wasnt nearly as nice. My hair looked very similar so you definitely can simplify the bar and rework the ingredients. It depends on your marketing and what benchmark you’re trying to hit. I also use a lot of vegetable glycerin for the liquid version which is the same ingredients as the bar but more water and glycerin. People have said it was the best conditioner they’ve used.
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by MaidenOrangeBlossom.
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
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Perfuming wasn’t my thing so I never got good at it.
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This is a treasure trove!
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No I wasn’t able to find cosmetic tutorials. It was extremely hard for me to learn color science on my own. So I had to teach myself and experiment. I found some on makeup but it wouldn’t help much for hair. However, the science would be valuable. Maybe you could look for a patent for a shampoo with color? There are purple shampoos for grey hair, blonde shampoos, etc…
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during covid there were significant distruptions in the supply chain so I put in a disclaimer. Not sure if i’d be sent to el salvador but its looking likely
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When you describe it like that it’s very easy to understand. I think dermatologists do a disservice when they say they don’t know but don’t recommend it for eczema. Had I not experienced skin issues like this, I still would be using them. Ironically I resolved some skin problems with essential oils but it was playing russian roulette. The more you use it, the more you’re likely to develop allergies, not less likely. I solely use it for aromatherapy now or lightly masking. One drop for 150ml of product and even then I am very hesitant. So I’ve marketed my products as sensitive so that not having a scent won’t hurt sales. Its incredible how heavily everything is scented. For wash off products or hair care, I am not as vigilant but eventually, none of my products will have any scent at all. I only added pineapple to my hair serum because the oat turns it an ugly yellow so its just marketing and one drop for 10 8oz bottles.
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that’s frightening! But one reason why I stopped using most essential oils in most of my products. After my last eczema flare, it scared the bejesus out of me. The science is not there yet.
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dermatologists
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I’ve had good results from the 10% in terms of usage and no crystalization. I use a high amount of glycerin which helps but can be slightly sticky. Some experts say that 10% works on deep wrinkles, severe acne, aging, eczema but without studies, I can’t confirm their experience.