[Kyle_T]

Figured I’d update you guys on my progress in case it can help someone else out in a similar situation.

We played with removing the tapioca starch with zero success, which led us to conclude that we have to homogenize.

Homogenizing on the bench worked great with an overhead mixer yesterday and today we are running a batch through our inline rotor stator mixer.

I will let you all know how it turns out!

[Kyle_T]

I don’t think there is a one size fits all option here. I would say considerations are the size of the client, the quantity their orders, difficulty of the formula, mitigating loss if the client were to change manufacturers, etc.

[Kyle_T]

Agreed, this is on par with the look we get with pearlizers.

[Kyle_T]

ok, yes that is correct and likely why the cetereth - 20 was recommended by bill. Thank you for clarification

[Kyle_T]

em88, Thank you, that ditectly answered one of my question above!

Could you clarify what you meant by saying I am calculating using the required value? 

Thanks!

[Kyle_T]

Bill Thank you for your response, this is very, very helpful.

Two questions:

1. If we add the cetereth-20, would we be able to consider that and the gms as our emulsification system and adjust percentage of each to reach a balance within +1?

2. Or does the peg-40 HCO still remain calculated as the part of our emulsifier system?

I will try adding some cetereth-20 and see what happens! 

[Kyle_T]

Thanks for confirming that. Regarding recalculating, did you mean my current HLB is wrong and that my math needs to be redone? Or did you mean that I will need to recalculate after replacing with tribehenin? 

Thanks!

[Kyle_T]

Perry, this is very helpful:

Regarding Cetyl & Stearyl Alchohol, that’s exactly what we were thinking, and it seems to imply that do not need to be calculated into the HLB ratio of our emulsifier blend.

Do I need to consider Cetyl & Stearl as a part of my blend of emulsifiers? Or do I consider them part of the oil phase only? If they are only a part of the oil phase, it would leave us with 2 emulsifiers; GMS at an HLB of 3.8 and Peg 40 HGC at and HLB of 14 as my current blend, giving a quite a range. Could I technically then adjust the percentage of the these two to 35% GMS and 65% Peg 40 HCO? This would give an average HLB of 10.283, however, I’m not sure this would work.

Regardless, we may be too far from the 10.7, still require something between 9 and 11 as you said. I will see what I have in house to test, or order in one of the two you suggested. 

In the mean time, I have been thinking that replacing the Stearyl Behenate (hlb of 8.4) with Tribehenin (hlb of 4) would also improve the emulsion as the majority of our emulsifiers are on the high end of the HLB spectrum. Do you agree with my thinking here?

Thanks!

[Kyle_T]

Thank you for your response,  This does help clarify that part of it, and I’ve done exactly this outside of adjusting percentages, but could use clarification on the math

The HLB Values of my emulsifiers/surfactants and percentage of emusifiers used are:

W - Cetyl Alcohol    -  HLB of 15.5  - 31.7622 %
X - Stearyl Alcohol  -  HLB of 15.5  - 31.7622 %
Y - Peg- 40 HGC     -  HLB of 14     - 28.6885%
Z - GMS                  -  HLB of  3.8    - 7.7868%

Plugged into the equation we see:

(31.7622/100) x 15.5  + (31.7622/100) x 15.5 + (28.6885/100) x 14 + (7.7868/100) x 3.8 = 14.1583

Given that the HLB of my emulsifiers equals 14.1583 and the HLB of my oil phase equals 10.7237, I’d simply have to adjust percentages of W,X,Y,Z Accordingly to match my oil phase.

How do you determine the right percentage to plug in? I can do trial and error, but guessing feels like throwing darts at a board while blindfolded.

Do you think this is the single cause of my emulsion problem, or are some of my other questions pertinent as well?

Thank you for your help Perry, I appreciate your knowledge