ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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@codeshanka Sometimes some emulsifiers are more sensitive to electrolytes. Can you make a sample withour dead sea salt? Also, it’s be better to now why are you using 2 high HLB emulsifiers, and at what level you’re using them.
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@Michelle76 This is just a guess, but it could be the case that something might be oxidizing. Maybe you could add and antioxidant such as Tinogard TT to see if it helps.
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@Shams As @Fekher mentioned, check the electrolyte compatibility of your Carbopol; there are actually types of Carbopol that are more tolerant to electrolytes than others (Ultrez 10 breaks very easily while Ultrez 20 can hold on better).
Also, without a proper emulsifier, many things can impair viscosity like your preservative (especially if it has EHG). You might also probably notice some phase separation when you conduct your stability, without a proper emulsifier.
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@crillz Citric acid is a pH regulator rather than a chelator. Sodium citrate (which is the salt formed after neutralizing Citric acid with Sodium hydroxide) is a chelator, but for that you need to raise pH above 6.4 (so carboxylic groups are proton-free and can properly interact with metallic ions).
When you add an additional preservative, make it an antifungal since the system you’re using lacks of activity against mold and yeast.
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@rikandry As Perry mentioned, you could try with SLS, perhaps not replacing all the SLES but using both in conjunction (P&G use this combination very often, I believe the ratio was abour 1:3 SLES:SLS, but you can check some patents to confirm). Also, you could replace some SLES by Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate which helps create a very creamy foam. Now, you can also use some foam stabilizers to prevent collaps of bubbles, like Amine oxides and Alkanolamides, and/or some water soluble polymers (PEG’s, polyquaterniums, etc.).
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The studies that WHO and CDC used to make their recommendations (https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0195-6701%2820%2930046-3) showed a much higer contact time to inactivate (reduction of >=4log10) the virus. While Ethanol, Isopropanol, Sodium hypochlorite and Hydrogen peroxide took around 30-60s, BKC took up to 10 min, and even at that time, the viral count didn’t reach the population reduction required. Also, BKC is not active against spores and can be deactivated by anionic particles like the ones found in many types of soils.
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@Benz3ne When you use high levels of CAPB in the presence of (also) high SLES and CDEA, you get faster to a gel phase, especially if you add NaCl. Usually, you want to get closer to it, but with some room to operate. Your could reduce the CAPB and increase CDEA a bit, or reduce CAPB and Increase SLES and NaCl a bit.
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@Bhartisaroha You can just stay with one of them (either EGMS or EGDS) at max. 1.5%. If you want your product to have a pearl look, you need to carefully control the cooling process. You could alternatively use a ready-made opacifier or pearlized, which won’t need much stabilization. For increased stability, you could add some Carbopol.
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@HussainAli You can use this info from Stepan as guidance: https://www.stepan.com/content/dam/stepan-dot-com/webdam/website-product-documents/product-bulletins/surfactants/BIOSOFTS118.pdf
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Rookayerh123 said:ketchito said:@Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it’d be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I’ve never tried more than 0.5% (providing it’s a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it’s a copolymer, it has more “mobility” than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).
Thank you. I plan to use poly quat 10 at 0.4%.
If I were to use poly quat 7, what % would you recommend.
You could use the 0.4% of PQ-10 alone, or split in half between PQ-10 and PQ-7 (remember that PQ-7 comes usually as a 10% slution, so to have 0.2%, you’d need to use 2% of the commercial material).
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@B@Bhartisaroha Indeed, DMDM hydantoin is a better choice, since you have too many ingredients that increase risk of contamination, and Geogard ECT alone wouldn’t be enough. Keep in mind that you also need an antifungal for broad spectrum preservation (you can use Glydant Plus or similar). Also, you have both Glycol stearate and Glycol disterate at very high levels with nothing to tabilize them. Do you want your product to be opaque/pearlized? If not, you can remove them, since they could be impairing stability of your product.
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@sandyzden Perhaps MS is causing a pH shift (a secondary reaction might be occuring). What’s the pH of the product before and after adding the MS?
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@chemistry8303 Highly anionic surfactants will interact strongly with hichly cationic, forming a non water soluble salt which, this has been shown many times. Some brands work around this by making a gel network (premix), putting the cationic as an insoluble phase that is suspended in the main mixture. You can search for some shampoo patents from L’oreal.
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@Merylin Is was actually going to ask you if those particles are soft or hard. Since they are soft, they might be the coconut butter, which is not only hard to emulsify, but also is present in a very high amount in your formula.
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@Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it’d be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I’ve never tried more than 0.5% (providing it’s a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it’s a copolymer, it has more “mobility” than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).
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@Dennis I believe this can also be caused by irritation from some ingredient in your formula. Can I ask why are you using carbamide? I’ve synthesized it in the lab while studying, but seems a bit strange to see it in a cosmetic formula.
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@Zara You don’t need to neutralize the ingredient before adding it to the formula, but you need to use more citric acid than expected to bring final pH to where you want. The high pH of the ingredient might be due to alkaline residues the manufacturer used to neutralize some acid they used through the manufacturing process.
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@naturalchemist I haven’t used so much Carbopol in an emulsion. Is it a powdery Carbopol, or a suspension? The rest of ingredients seem fine, maybe you can try one sample without Carbopol.
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@anne86sarah Carbopol Aqua SF-1 is an ingredient that dissapointed me very much when I first tried it, and the cost to get the final result was too high, compared to powdery Carbopols. In the end, either you increase much more your Carbopol Aqua SF-1, or try with one of the regular Carbopols. And only trust suppliers 50% of what they say. Good luck!
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@Aya The first thing you need to know is that Cocamidopropyl betaine (CAPB) can be in neutral or cationic form according to pH. At pH lower than 5.5, it behaves as a cationic surfactant, and since you have an anionic surfactant in your product, they will form an insoluble complex (that’s why you see the turbidity that becomes whiter the lower you go in pH). The fix here is to increase pH to around 6.0. Also, I’d replace Xanthan gum for a non ionic thickener, such as Hydroxyethylcellulose.
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@curlmaster211 With proper mixing and hydration time, there souldn’t be any issues, but it’d be better to know more details about your formula, since the best we can do now is guessing.
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@Abdullah Polymeric emulsifiers are polymers that sit in the interphase of the emulsion, not only physically stabilizing the emulsion, but also interacting with the oil phase. They are independent of the HLB requirements of your system. I used a couple of them in the part: Sepigel 305 and Novemer EC-1, but there are many more.
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@sandyzden Toilet bowl cleaners is usually acid, but I’d like to know what’s the pH of your mixture before adding the Methyl salicylate? Is the final color after adding the methyl salicylate, yellow?
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@anne86sarah You need to keep in mind that Carbopol Aqua SF-1 is a low active ingredient (compared to regular powdery Carbopols), so you’ll need more than 2% to suspend/stabilize particles. I think the technical paper from Dow mentions something around 4%; anyway; anyway, I remember a formula where I needed up to 6% to stabilize an emulsified silicone in a shampoo. I personaly prefer Carbopol powders, even though they are more complicated to work with.
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@dr_chem Ok, then I don’t see any issue with the formula. If you want to still reduce foam, you might want to reduce CAPB a bit. You need to try few times till you get the proper foam.