ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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I’d test your base first without STPP or NaCl. You have quite some LABSA so you need toncheck first if it’s stable on its own. If it’s not, you need to replace part of it by SLES…or use a hydrotrope like SXS.
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Try your formula without STPP or NaCl. Sulfonates don’t like electrolytes very much.
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All the preservative systems you mentioned are weak, especially the last one. I’d check that first.
As for the smell issue, I’d reduce all the extracts to a claim leven (not more that 0.1%), to see if the problem is solved.
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Hi, I’m sorry. What are your issues exactly?
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Are you adding your dimethiconol as a gum or as an emulsion? In any case, you need a suspending agent that should give high shear resistance, like a carbomer or acrylates copolymers.
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I assume you have a stabilizing system for your enzymes (borate, glycerol, not high pH, mild chelant, etc.).
Now, SLES and CAPB have a synergistic effect on both detergency and foam, and that’s why they are used in different types of products around the world. SLES foams more and is more detersive than CAPB, which is usually added to boost SLES’s foam, make it more detersive (by forming more micelles) but also milder. If you remove SLES, CAPB won’t be so effective at cleaning; if you remove CAPB, your SLES would actually be harsher against your enzymes.
If you don’t want that much foam, you could do the following:
- reduce both SLES and CAPB but keeping the ratio
- replace part of the SLES by a fatty alcohol ethoxylate like laureth-9
- increase your glyrerol or PPG (which I assume you’re using to stabilize your enzymes)
- add an hydrotrope like SXS (they reduce foaming of anionics, although not dramatically)
- add a silicone antifoam for cleaning products
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For that, you’d need to add silicones. Are you ok with using silicones? They rule actually, hehe. If you’re not, there’s a modified version of PQ-10 which is hydrophobically modified, and that could help you on that (not at the level of silicones, but some). It’s called Ucar Extreme Polymer from Dow.
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Hi! Your formula could actually be more into budget (APG is quite expensive to be used as main surfactant). Also, why do you add so much GLDA? If you want not only chelation (you don’t need more than 0.1-0.2% -or 0.5% to be extremistic- as 100% active matter) but secondary detergency, then adding a citrate could be a cheaper option (there are few studies about similar combos).
Now, to your question, you could add a third component to prevent that from happening, so you have a more mixed micellar system: either CAPB or an amine oxide (they could even replace part of your APG). They both have higher interaction with SCS and might prevent what you’re experiencing.
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Then it’s your fatty alcohol. There are a couple ways to add them: either to make heat the whole batch untill you melt them, of mixing them with some water and surfactante as a premix. Which way you’re doing it?
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Just out of curiosity, are the particles jelly-like and spherical, or irregular, brittle and very white?
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You have too much EDTA (you can use half). Also, you have way too much Polyquaternium-10 (you can use 0.2-0.3%). Keep in mind that PQ-10 tends to bind strongly to hair and might be harder to completely remove it later, specially since you don’t have stronger surfactants like SLES.
I’d change your method to look like this: add your water to the main vessel, sprinkle EDTA with high mixing, sprinkle after the PQ-10 also with high mixing, add 2% of your betaine with low mixing, and after this, add all the anionic surfactants; add the rest of the betaine.
What preservative system are you using?
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You can add both polymers to the main batch at the start with high mixing speed (don’t add them to the water without mixing). No heating required.
About the paticles, are they on top or at the bottom of your product?
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At such high pH, there’s the chance that some FFAA from your natural oils might be neutralizing, contributing to the soaping. In your last attempt, since you remover coconut oil, soaping decreased. Try adding citric acid from the start so you have a final pH of 4-5, and also use n9 more than 0.5% of each natural oil/butter.
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You can cut both coconut oil and shea butter by half, and increase your dimethicone at 3%. Also, add some citric acid to adjust the pH (0.1-0.2), but do it right at the start (to the water phase, before anything else).
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I’m glad it worked. Good luck!🤓
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Are you sure it’s not the fragrance? 1% is quite some, and can produce turbidity.
Anyway, could you change the order of addition like this:
Water, EDTA, PQ-7, 1/4 of your CAPB, SCI, Sarcosinate (check here if the solution is clear), a premix of fragrance and the rest of CAPB, the rest of ingredients and Versathix.
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What is SQ-7?
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Ok, but that’s if you have a suspending agent. If not, then something like PEG-12 dimethicone or a silicone microemulsion could be useful.
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For shampoos, I use either a dimethiconol emulsion (50 or 60%), and/or dimethicone (1000 cps+).
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I don’t remember what are the pKa values for CAPB, but if at that pH the molecule is neutral, going up in pH wouldn’t change its ionic state since it’s hard to remove an hydrogen from a methyl group, and it’s also harder to do that from an amide group (intramolecular stabilization).
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That will never happen since CAPB has a quaternary amine with a permanent positive charge. That’s why it’s sometimes argued if CAPB is a real amphoteric or not.
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I think the first comment about the compatibility is for storage (since it’s an acid). But when you use it in a product, you need to neutralize it with a base to make a functional surfactant.
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Hi Mike,
Sorry for the late reply. Here are some references to illustrate my comment.
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Everything in the main tank, in the order I propose and without heating (you could heat if you want, but SCI mixes well without heating). Now, d-panthenol is water soluble, so it won’t do much in a cleanser that rinses-off. You could just drop it.
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I second @abdullah ‘s recommendation.
