ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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Remove Glycerin and Decyl glucoside (you could replace the last one by Coco glucoside, if you want).
If the Alpha olefin sulfonate is at 40%, double the amount.
Replace Lauryl Hydroxysultaine by Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine.
That should give you a thicker system, and if you require more, add a bit of salt or Cocamide DEA (or similar).
By the way, your preservative system is not robust, but @PhilGeis would be more suited to comment on that.
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It feels like deja vu…I’ve seen so many posts about shampoo phase separation where there’s a glucoside and a gum. Can you try a sample without coco glucoside? Also, add your cationic guar right at the start, after the water with vigurous mixing. After 10 min, add your disodium EDTA to speed up hydration. Your solution will turn thick and less yellow.
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Although I don’t agree with having high doses of hygroscopic humectants as the only way to achieve moisturization (emollients and occlusives are also needed for a full benefit), you can certainly make a cream with high doses of urea. You can check at this patent: US20050042182A1 - Topical compositions of urea - Google Patents
Now, get rid of unnecesary ingredients and focus on the ones that make the emulsion (don’t forget about the glycol -some papers suggest a mixture of water:PPG is the way to go-, structuring agents, preservatives and a chelant, of course). Adding urea during the cool-down process makes it more prone to crystallization since there’s less free water to dissolve it. You could alternatively add urea in the water phase at the start of the process (T increases urea solubility) and make your emulsion perhaps at 60-65°C, but keep at this T not for long….so the emulsion should be fast and furious.
patents.google.com
US20050042182A1 - Topical compositions of urea - Google Patents
US20050042182A1 - Topical compositions of urea - Google Patents
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I’d also would like to know what your emulsifier is (they vary in structure despite the HLB number). Also, I wouldn’t reduce your fatty alcohols (they are your structuring agents) but would use cetearyl alcohol at 4% instead (if you’re using the 50:50 version) and 2% of cetyl alcohol. Also, I’d reduce the shea butter to 2% (butters are hard to emulsify) and your CCT to 6%.
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@Aniela Your proposals are very real ????
I especially liked the 1st one. Both bases because of the NaCl (and perhaps the glycosides) could have different micellar structures and therefore, might solubilize differently some fragrance components. Knowing that, perfumers use different chemicals accoding their partition coefficients to design a fragrance for a particular product (that’s not possible with an essential oil).
They other possibility is that the amine content in your PQ-7 could be interfering (or even reacting) with your fragrance.
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@mikethair Could you please show the part of the COA where they list the components of the fragrance/essential oil? Usually this is shown in a separate document (allergen declaration) where all allergens are listed with their concentration.
Also, how can you test all of them (keep in mind the list of allergens is now of 82)? They vary in nature and you require different protocols, chromatographic columns, stationary phases and solvents/solvent-mixtures? And of course, a MS which is very costly and hard to mantain.
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I wanted to ask you which type of experts you mean. Are they toxicologists, immunoilogists or cosmetic scientists? If you refer to dermatologists, well, you’ve seen in social media that they are not the real experts on that specific matter (many are biased and even paid)…perhaps dermatologists with research background and publications on peer-reviewed journals (most don’t have) could be trusted.
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It’s very candid to instead of a commercial fragrance for which you know the risky chemicals in it and their concentration (aka “allergens, which are detailed in the allergen declaration), you choose a distillate for which you have compounds whose identity is uncertain at all (like “compound MW=192”, “”compound MW=222”, “aromatic compound”, “compound MW=220”, etc.) or that you only know their chemical family (like “alkyl benzene”, “sesquiterpene”, “terpenic compound” or isomers without mentioning which one it is), for which there is no safety information. I mean….
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I’m glad to hear that, we’re all here to help. I never used sodium stearoyl lactylate in an emulsion, but what I’d do is increase your Emulsifying wax 1% more (keeping the Cetearyl alcohol you already have) and perhaps reducing the mineral oil a bit (non polar oils are hard to emulsify).
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Does your fragrance smell a bit like vanila? There might be an oxidation going on. You could add an antioxidant (BHT or Tinogard TL).
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What is LLP? How do you adjust your pH? Can you tell more about your manufacturing method?
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Gums tend not to let bubbles out, but if you do your emulsion at hight T (75-80°C), and then let naturally cool with slow mixing and no shear, that should be enough to let bubbles out.
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I’ve seen so many times separation issues of surfactant based formulas that have glucosides and gums. I’d replace Xanthan gum. If you have nothing to suspend, then rely on the power of mixing anionic-amphoteric-salt. You could alternatively add a fatty amide (like Cocamide DEA or similar).
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CAPB is one of the mildest avaliable surfactants. It can produce some skin issues to people with specific skin allergy to the ingredient, which is rare. To be safe, always formulate it along an anionic surfactant (wich will hinder both polar heads by forming a mixed micellar system) and at a low pH (which will neutralize amidoamines and other basic impurities, which can be present in traces). Also, regarding the safety of soaps, better take a look at the available evidence like this CIR review: cir-reports.cir-safety.org/view-attachment/?id=3a3ac6dd-8c74-ec11-8943-0022482f06a6. Our own experience is considered as anecdotal evidence, which is the lowest level of evidence possible. We always need to search for systematic reviews on the topic (like this one from CIR or the Opinions from the SCCs of the EU).
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No worries @nshu_14 . Usually, a base (like Sodium hydroxide) is added to the water phase. When you add the oil phase (where Stearic acid is) to the water phase, neutralization occurs.
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Please, neutralize your Stearic acid so it can work as an emulsifier and not as a structuring agent)…that’s the first thing you need to fix.
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Glyceryl stearate is also a structuring agent, not a emulsifier. As @paprik mentioned, you need to neutralze your Stearic acido to make it work as an emulsifier.
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What are you “heat activating” and what temperature do you need to reach?
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There are clear cleansers with PQ-10 on the market. I also agree with SCI being responsible. Perhaps you could add some CAPB. Also, Glycerine is not needed in that formula and it will impair your foam.
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That’s when you don’t take your own experience as evidence. Usually formulas are tested with hundreds of consumers to really see the positive and negative aspects of the product (always compared to a benchmark).
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Have you seen a patento or paper on the topic? Acids can be irritating depending on the type, concentration and scalp state, so I don’t see how this can help with itchy scalp.
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Yeah…there’s a reason why sodium lauryl sulfate is not used as emulsifier: foam and smaller micelles. Those are two reasons actually, hehe. Foam is never good when you make an emulsion, unless you can remove it before cool down. And small micelles (because of charge repulsion) mean less ability to work as an emulsifier. If you want to use a glucoside as an emulsifier, it should be cetearyl glucoside which is part of Montanon 68. And talking about green, I’ve never found natural occurring APG’s ????
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It depends on which emulsifier you’re using ????
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Would you share some literature that supports this?
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It’s one of the standards (you can go to Amazon and check the rating and comments). Now, when you mention that some of the ingredients can’t be used when you have some skin conditions, what is your source of information? did you check on the CIR or the Opinion from the SCCS for each ingredient to get to that conclusion? Please, don’t take it the wrong way…just want to know what are your sources since internet if full of sh….misinformation ????