[JOJO91343]

For Stability Studies, the min. submission for the Long Term should be 1 year and for retesting, it can extend up to 3 years.  Also, for refrigeration and freezer, it can extend up to 1 year.  If you can make the freezing down to -25C, it can be better.  These are just Guidelines but it may vary from manufacturing to another in Personal care and OTC products

[JOJO91343]

You can still do both techniques whether to neutralize before adding anything or to neutralize after adding the surfactants.  I did both techniques in the same formula and I didn’t have any problem.  For shampoo, I, always, do high shear in the hydration step of thickener only.  Once it’s completely hydrated without lumps,  I switch to medium - low shear. whether I neutralize before or after adding surfactants.  I never get any lumps, viscosity drops, or structural damage.  Of course, if you use high shear when the thickener is getting thick, you can get structural damage.

[JOJO91343]

Doreen.  That’s a good question.  It’s the nature of my mind. In the year 2013, I didn’t know the best way of dissolving Salicylic Acid in water phase and/or oil phase without separation in the long run passing all the Temp. and Humidity Conditions up to three years from the formulation date and without declining in concentration results of the Regression analysis, Now I know it under all these conditions.  But I want the other researchers in the discussion to have the benefit of the doubt.  For me, research is all about Education, Reading, and applications (Micro Scale: In the lab and Macro Scale: In Production.  Not everything we hear and/or read is absolutely right.  We have to try it in different settings to know in which settings, it is applicable and in which settings it is not applicable.  Even the level of Academic Science.  Recently, the new researchers proved that some of the science theories in the past century had its own limitations and it can’t be applicable in all settings. My Motto is “If I can’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, If I can’t detect using my senses, it many not be right or at least not in all conditions.”

[JOJO91343]

There are different solubilizers for Salicylic Acid even for only water based formulas. The key factor is whether it will dissolve completely or it will separate after some hours. After dissolving it, you may leave it stagnant for some hours. If it separates/precipitates, you may need to change the technique or solubilizer (type or percentage) You may dissolve it in Glycereth-18 Ethylhexanoate (and) Glycereth-18. The Ratio here is Salicylic Acid : Hest G - 18 -O is 20 : 80 or 2:8 in case of using 2% Salicylic Acid, as shown in the following link, . Actually, you may combine two formulas together. Dissolving Salicylic Acid, then, making the shampoo. Re: https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1113931.pdf?bs=605&b=186849&st=1&sl=58775328&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbU0FMSUNZTElDIEFDSUQgRk9STVVMQVRJT05d&k=SALICYLIC|ACID|FORMULATION&r=na&ind=personalcarehttps://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1182822.pdf?bs=605&b=238242&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare For dissolving Salicylic Acid in Surfactants, I passed by a supporting formula for it:http://www.stepan.com/uploadedFiles/Literature_and_Downloads/Formulations/Cleansers_(liquid_soaps,_facial_and_bath_products)/StepanFormulation1072.pdf Also, Salicylic Acid can be dissolved in Ethyl Alcohol (SDA 40) or Denatured Alcohol in different Ratios. But the issues here is flammability (it shouldn’t be heated) and the odor. Strong Fragrance should be added.

[JOJO91343]

For Salicylic Acid Separation, try to monitor Stability Results: If the product is OTC or if it has API like Salicylic Acid, you may run Stability Studies .  Usually The Stability Studies are Long Term (3 years in case of OTC - 25C),  Accelerated (3 - 6 Months - 40C), Intermediate (1.5 Year - 30C), Refrigerated (3-6 months - 6C), Freezer (3-6 Months - below 0C), and UV (3-6 Months-One sample covered by foil and the other without foil with exposing the one without foil to sunlight).  With me, I didn’t experience any separation with SLS, SLES, Chembetaine, and Alcohol.  But you can run Stability Studies to make sure of that.  Also, if you have access to inside or outside lab to test the product for Regression Analysis on Monthly Basis to see whether the Concentration of Salicylic Acid is declining by time.  If it’s declining, it could be an indication of several factors: e.g Separation, Cross-Reaction, or other factors.  Also, if you get haziness at leat through 3 - 6 Months in the Accelerated Results or precipitation in the Refrigerated or Frozen Results, you may change the solubilizer, technique, or concentration of the solubilizer.

[JOJO91343]

For Salicylic Acid Separation, try to monitor Stability Results: If the product is OTC or if it has API like Salicylic Acid, you may run Stability Studies .  Usually The Stability Studies are Long Term (3 years in case of OTC - 25C),  Accelerated (3 - 6 Months - 40C), Intermediate (1.5 Year - 30C), Refrigerated (3-6 months - 6C), Freezer (3-6 Months - below 0C), and UV (3-6 Months-One sample covered by foil and the other without foil with exposing the one without foil to sunlight).  With me, I didn’t experience any separation with SLS, SLES, Chembetaine, and Alcohol.  But you can run Stability Studies to make sure of that.  Also, if you have access to inside or outside lab to test the product for Regression Analysis on Monthly Basis to see whether the Concentration of Salicylic Acid is declining by time.  If it’s declining, it could be an indication of several factors: e.g Separation, Cross-Reaction, or other factors.  Also, if you get haziness at leat through 3 - 6 Months in the Accelerated Results or precipitation in the Refrigerated or Frozen Results, you may change the solubilizer, technique, or concentration of the solubilizer.

[JOJO91343]

If you like to try Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, here is the formula I’m referring to : Page 6 in the link
https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1424771.pdf?bs=581&b=211769&st=1&sl=59477158&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbc29kaXVtIGNvY295bCBpc2V0aGlvbmF0ZV0%3d&k=sodium|cocoyl|isethionate&r=na&ind=personalcare
In this formula the supplier tried a certain brand of Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (ELFAN® AT 84 G) to compare it with the bench mark.  Only non ionic surfactant was used (Decyl Glucoside).  If you like to use other anionic surfactant with Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate or if you like to use Amphoteric Surfactants like cocamidopropyl betaine, you may add less of Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate based on how much you want to add from the amphoteric surfactant.

[JOJO91343]

Regarding the Preservatives, you may also try Zemea Propanediol

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/2624/79261/Zemea-Propanediol

[JOJO91343]

I like the first technique: “In one formula the Carbopol is added to water and then neutralised before any thing else is added” because the anionic (SLES) and Amphoteric Surfactants (CAPB: Cocamidopropyl Betaine, if my guess is right) are mostly water so if you add them on carbopol while carbopol is only hydrated (without neutralization) the whole batch will be very watery, then, if you neutralize the batch after adding the surfactants, the thickening effect you can get from carbopol may not compensate the batch dilution by the water percentage of the batch firstly, and by the water in the anionic and amphoteric surfactants, secondly unless you will thicken the batch by adding salt (Sodium Chloride). You didn’t mention Sodium Chloride in your formula.  I think you don’t like to add Sodium Chloride, because you added 0.8% Carbopol ETD 2020.  That makes the formula very “Pricey” .  I think if you try 0.25-0.30% of carbopol and tried to thicken the batch by salt (Sodium Chloride) and/or Cocamide (If you are not working for a certain Natural Standard which prevents using cocamide) you may get a good viscosity in a significantly lower cost.

[JOJO91343]

There are different solubilizers for Salicylic Acid even for only water based formulas. The key factor is whether it will dissolve completely or it will separate after some hours. After dissolving it, you may leave it stagnant for some hours. If it separates/precipitates, you may need to change the technique or solubilizer (type or percentage) You may dissolve it in Glycereth-18 Ethylhexanoate (and) Glycereth-18. The Ratio here is Salicylic Acid : Hest G - 18 -O is 20 : 80 or 2:8 in case of using 2% Salicylic Acid, as shown in the following link, . Actually, you may combine two formulas together. Dissolving Salicylic Acid, then, making the shampoo. Re:

https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1113931.pdf?bs=605&b=186849&st=1&sl=58775328&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbU0FMSUNZTElDIEFDSUQgRk9STVVMQVRJT05d&k=SALICYLIC|ACID|FORMULATION&r=na&ind=personalcare

https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1182822.pdf?bs=605&b=238242&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare

For dissolving Salicylic Acid in Surfactants, I passed by a supporting formula for it:
http://www.stepan.com/uploadedFiles/Literature_and_Downloads/Formulations/Cleansers_(liquid_soaps,_facial_and_bath_products)/StepanFormulation1072.pdf

Also, Salicylic Acid can be dissolved in Ethyl Alcohol (SDA 40) or Denatured Alcohol in different Ratios. But the issues here is flammability (it shouldn’t be heated) and the odor. Strong Fragrance should be added.

[JOJO91343]

Regarding the Conditioning effect.  If Mary likes to use Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, it will provide dual function: Thickener and Conditioning Agent.

[JOJO91343]

I passed by a patent, published online, which can resolve the issue of using Benzalkonium Chloride in the presence of Anionic Surfactant in the formulation. The patent stated that using any of the Amino Acids: L-Arginine, Lysine, or Histidine in the concentration of 0.5% - 5.0% w/v with Benzalkonium Chloride as a preservative can increase the Efficacy of Benzalkonium Chloride as a Preservative and reduce its concentration use in the formula to 100 ppm only which may not interfere with Anionic ingredient in the formula:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5658948

So, If L-Arginine, Lysine, or Histidine is used in Candace’s formula in the concn. of (0.5% - 5%) with only 100 ppm Benzalkonium Chloride, it may increase the efficacy of Benzalkonium Chloride as a preservative in Candace’s Formula in the concn. of only 100 ppm, but, again, after adding these two ingredients in these concentrations, Stability Studies should be conducted. In Vivo Studies for Verifying that the formula will not cause Skin Irritation in “Around the eye area” and In Vitro Studies should be conducted to verify that using Benzalkonium Chloride in 100 pm Conc. in this formula has A Broad Spectrum effect.

[JOJO91343]

I need to resolve a confusion happened between two User Names: sturdent54 and JOJO91343.  Perry resolved this confusion, recently.  Student54 comments which were posted on Feb. 16, and Feb 17 were written by me JOJO91343

[JOJO91343]

I need to resolve a confusion happened between two User Names: sturdent54 and JOJO91343.  Perry resolved this confusion, recently.  Student54 comments which were posted on Feb. 16 were written by me JOJO91343

[JOJO91343]

Yes, till recent time, cationic surfactant was used for the purpose of conditioning effect, then, most of the Natural Standards started rejecting it because it’s Quaternary Ammonium Compound. Now, most of the recent formulas started relying on Anionic, Amphoteric, and Non-Ionic Surfactants because Amphoteric Surfactants have both positive and negative charge.  If the medium has high H+ concn. the positive charges, in the medium, will block the negative sites of the Amphoteric Surfactants and the Amphoteric Surfactants will act as a Cationic Surfactant.

[JOJO91343]

I passed by a formula utilizing Carbopol with Lactic Acid in Skin Brightening Gel in case you like to look at it.
https://www.ulprospector.com/en/asia/PersonalCare/Detail/849/329345/Skin-Brightening-Gel-Formulation-S-SG0019%5BAP%5D

[JOJO91343]

If you like to try Lactic Acid instead of Citric Acid, You may try the adjustment in a Lab Batch with no more than 20% solution concentration of Lactic Acid till you reach the required pH range only : 6.0 - 6.5 because Lactic Acid has exfoliating property and result in skin peel.  You shouldn’t increase the concentration of Lactic Acid in a batch more than 10% of the 20% Lactic Acid Solution.

[JOJO91343]

I think Lactic Acid at 90% solution is very strong especially if you are formulating Leave On Product. You may start the scale of Lactic Acid from 20% solution, then, increase it gradually, in a lab batch, but, the matter of trying it on yourself or someone else is very risky and dangerous.  You could legally responsible for the outcome.  This could be the reason for the irritation you suffer from in you neck.  I used to see Glycolic Acid in the exfoliating formulas, but, I didn’t notice it in your formula.  From the legal Point of view, you may check with FDA if your product is considered Drug/OTC or Cosmetic.

[JOJO91343]

There is Glycerin (99.5%) from Cremer Oleo (Supplier):
http://cremeroleo.com
Reference: Formulary Nature I Classic - Edition 2015 - drstraetmans

[JOJO91343]

Hello
My Name is George. I’m an experienced Cosmetic Chemist for 15 years. Please, contact me if you feel that my experience can fit your needs
OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM
geynib439642@gmail.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/chemist13yrs

[JOJO91343]

If you like to use Natural Thickeners, you may use combinations of Natural Thickeners, but, it they may not be effective in building viscosity in small concentrations as the synthetic thickeners (e.g Carbopol).  Also, you may expect undesired physical properties as stickiness when you use Natural Thickeners more than when you use Synthetic Thickeners.
If you like to use only Thickeners approved by most of the Natural Standards, you may try the combination of:
Xanthan Gum: 0.3% and Magnesium Aluminum Silicate: 0.6%   Or
Xanthan Gum: 0.3%, Distarch Phosphate: 1.2%, and Carageenan 0.24%  
If the viscosity is, still, low, you may go to higher percentages.  You may make a “slurry” in Glycerin before you add any of these combination so you may not get “lumps”.  Because you don’t know whether this opinion will work as you like or not, you may need to try it in a Lab Batch first.

Good Luck!

Reference:  Formulary Nature I Classic - Edition 2015 - drstraetmans

[JOJO91343]

To dissolve Salicylic Acid, you may try dissolving it, separately, in Ethyl Alcohol, then, wait overnight to see whether it is separated.  If it didn’t separate, you may add it, dissolved in Ethyl Alcohol, to the water phase of the lab batch. But, I strongly emphasis the point Bob mentioned about the legal issues of dealing with Salicylic Acid, especially, you, already, declared that your product is “Blemish Control Cream”.  When you say “Blemish Control”, it could be considered as “Drug Claim” from FDA. Cosmetic Claims could be only: “enhancing the appearance of”.  Drug Claim may include: Control, treat, cure, etc.  Also, Salicylic Acid is considered “Active”, if you are using it, in any OTC Cream and it may have FDA Monograph.  Also, to manufacture OTC Cream, you may need to have Drug Establishment Registration from FDA. You may need to check with FDA regarding the legal issue in this subject

[JOJO91343]

How did you dissolve Salicylic acid? Did it separate when you cool the emulsion to Room Temp?

[JOJO91343]

Please, share the details

[JOJO91343]

Hello
My Name is George. I’m an experienced Cosmetic Chemist for 15 years. Please, contact me if you feel that my experience can fit your needs
OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM
geynib439642@gmail.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/chemist13yrs