johnb
Forum Replies Created
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There are thousands of patents devoted to calcite suspensions as are used in the products you mention. That knowledge alone should be enough to indicate to you AVOID.
The original products were based on a “structured liquid” comprising sodium laurate and an amine oxide detergent. These are used to suspend gound (powdered, 100mesh) calcite. It was found early on that the suspending power of the detergent blend was very much dependent on the fragrance in the mix.
I worked to some extent on the fragrance in the original Jif (Cif) product and I’m able to warn that a stable (marketable) suspension involves very careful attention to detail in the mixing and post mix handling.
An additional aspect of manufacture is that the product is so abrasive that filling equipment wears out very rapidly.
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The potassium, sodium and ammonium salts are soluble in water.
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Going past the peak of the salt curve then increases to potential for physical instability and separation.
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Rosewater can be bought on the open market from the manufacturers of rose oil (and their agents). If you only need a small amount you can buy it from Amazon (or similar). Likewise with orange flower water
Real rosewater is self preserving due to the relatively high level of phenethyl alcohol it contains. Peppermint and spearmint waters are also self preserving when prepared in the old fashioned way.
The items called “floral waters” and “hydrosols” should have been made by distillation methods from the plants named on the label but are often products of the laboratory.
It is not really worthwhile to make your own.
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Some essential oils are sufficiently water soluble to impart a fragrance/flavour to water without the assistance of other agents. Peppermint and spearmint come to mind.
Then there are the distillation waters that is the water collected during the steam distillation of vegetation like rose and orange blossom.
Quite a number of “waters” can be made by thorough shaking of an essential oil with water mixed with a small amount of an insoluble dispersant such as magnesium carbonate. The mixture is left to stand undisturbed to allow the solids to settle and the fragranced water is decanted. A dispersant such as MgCO3 causes the essential oil to agglomerate around the solid matter and settle to the bottom of the container. In many instances oils with a density less than that of water (that normally float) will be taken to the bottom of the container.
The amount of oil dissolved is very low. Depending on the oil involved, much less than 1% moves to the aqueous phase but that is sufficient to impart a strong fragrance for use in a spray.
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Assuming the green colour is chlorophyll derived from the tea, the usual way of stabilisation is to form the copper-chlorophyllin complex.
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This is an extremely common problem - the differences produced by scale-up from lab to manufacturing scale.
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I’ve just noticed that you state that marketing has started. Patenting must be confidential in its early stages, at least until filing with the authorities.
If you are considering going along the patent route, you must get confidentiality agreements with all who know details of the product. -
You will have difficulty in getting any company interested in your concept unless you have legal protection, that is have a patent or patent application filed.
To have any chance of successfully obtaing a patent you idea has to be novel - that is to say unlike any previous invention and has industrial/commercial viability. This requires a comprehensive search of patents filed worldwide.
I don’t know where you are based but, in the UK, it is free to file a patent (that is after it is written up) and you then have one year to try sell/market the idea before more fees are due.
Details of taking out a patent and for go-it-alone patenting are available from the UK Patent Office online.
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Are your tubes open ended or are you filling through the nozzle?
Open ended tubes can be filled conveniently using a syringe with a catheter tip. These are available in large size (100ml+). You can get very large size needle fitting (Luer) syringes. Large (wide bore) needles can be sometimes bought on eBay or from Sigma Aldrich.
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An important part of a cleaning procedure for cleaning something like a Silverson is to dismantle the mixing head after each use and thoroughly clean the normally hidden rotor and screen. There are thumb nuts provided to enable this.
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Having worked for a company that distills a number of essential oils, including lavender, I can say that almost all is distilled from stainless steel. There are/were a few artisan lavender distillers in Grasse (France) but most cashed in on selling their copper stills when the market price of copper was at a high.
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Just checking it’s not April 1st.
Is this a jest?
Chemical nomenclature is entirely man made and whether a mateial has “benz” in its name depends on the naming system used. For example, vanillin (the most widely used flavouring agent by a long way) by its IUPAC name becomes 4-Hydroxy-3-methoxybenzaldehyde. Does this mean you are allergic to vanilla?
There are gazillions of examples of materials containing a “benz” structure.
You should consult a health professional.
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Please heed my comments re sodium chloride (above).
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There are courses offered by the owner of this group which may be of use to you - see https://chemistscorner.com/members/
I still feel that I should warn you against working with potentially dangerous materials at this stage.
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These materials are not to be treated lightly and misuse can result in devastating and dangerous effects on the skin.
The fact that you have asked the question indicates, to me at least, that you do not have the necessary knowledge and experience to use them in formulating cosmetic products.
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I worked at a large soapmakers for some years. They had a capacity of several thousand tonnes of soap per week. The process was an automated centrifugal system.
The water used at the plant was called “condensate” which, for a while was a mystery to me, this being my first industrial experience after laboratory based research.
Anyway the origin of condensate soon became apparent as being the condensed waste steam from the steam boilers of the manufacturing plant.
So, back to the basics, condensate is distilled water and it, or an equivalent should, in my opinion, always be used in soap making.
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Much more information is required.
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At least double the amount of SLES.
Omit the sodium chloride, at least until the product is thoroughly mixed and then add a small amount at a time until you reach a suitable viscosity. The amount added will be much less than the 2% you are currently using and you may not need any at all (this would be the ideal).Regarding the addition of glycerine or other moisturisers, it is a waste of time and money as Chemicalmatt says.
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Amazon, eBay (Lab supplies) etc. sell pH testing strips of several types.
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Assuming the SLES is 30% (or thereabout), this level of prime detergent is very low and out of proportion to the CAPB and CDE.
In addition, the level of sodium chloride is too high for such a low level of detergent. This is likely to result in a low viscosity and a high cloud point. The sodium chloride level should be adjusted each time and in a mix of the three main detergents you have, it may not be required at all.
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Is this an enquiry for a genuine homeopathic product or is it a marketing gimmick?
Real homeopathic products have a defined method of preparation which involves much more than showing the product the cap of the bottle of arnica and hoping for the best.
Perry is quite right in saying that homeopathic remedies are just water but it is the way that the water is prepared that is so important.
Genuine homeopathic manufacturers will either provide the arnica ready prepared for addition to the muscle rub or provide details of its preparation - which is one helluva fuss!
I did some work for a homeopathic company some years ago. Never again- far, far too demanding.
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You omit revealing the pearling agent to us.
I can only assume (again) that you are using a mica pearling agent. With your declared ingredient mix (or almost any other) you will never be able to obtain a stable suspension with a mica pearl.
Pearling agents for detergent mixes are almost always based on EGMS or similar.
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I was involved in a two phase bath oil some years ago.
The initial plant setup was a constantly stirred mix feeding into a standard volumetric bottle filler. This wasn’t really successful as it was almost impossible to maintain a consistent mix of the two phases and, particulurly as they were different colours, the different levels looked relly bad on a nstore shelf.
What was done was to fill with a double pass, filling one phase to a fixed volume and then the other fixed volume on a second pass.
The company was in the process of setting up a double filler (two filler heads in series) when post Christmas sales went so low that the product was taken off the market.
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Bobzchemist
That’s what I thought but, not being particularly familiar with colour cosmetics, I thought I was missing some important point.