johnb
Forum Replies Created
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You seem to have missed a salient point in my post.
Unless you have some innovative ingredient in your product, even lipstick, all the usual components will have been comprehensively tested for suitability and safety thus there is no reason for this to be repeated. No chemical reactions take place in lipsticks so what is put in will be able to be quantitatively recovered.
When you are “digging out” information on testing procedures, ensure it is up to date. Animal testing IS NOT carried out nowadays.
Cosmetic materials suppliers ensure that the material they offer are of a quality suitable for the intended end use. On your specific point, there is no chance of lead being present in a cosmetic quality ingredient. Regarding urea, it won’t be there unless it is intended to be but, what is the objection to it? It is a normal component of the body and no doubt will be detectable in any, and all, body tissues.
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Do you particularly need the bromide salt of cetrimonium?
Cetrimonium (note spelling) chloride solution is readily available from numerous small-crafter suppliers.
Stearalkonium chloride appears only to be available in small quantities as a semi-formulated product Incroquat CR
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If someone wants to bring out my “imagination, creativity, and knowledge of ingredients” then they must pay for it. I am not a benevolent uncle.
I think you are on to a loser here. In effect you are requesting freebie innovation.
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“Sky is the limit” products just don’t exist on our side of the marketplace. It is only in the retail/consumer sector where there are attempts at such practices and this is entirely due to marketing. The contents of the cosmetic pots vary little from the bottom to the top of the market. OK, products may contain snake oil and fairy dust but the bulk of products are basically very limited.
All manufacturers are interested only in making a profit and the cheaper they can make their product and more expensive they can sell it the better they like it.
I am very surprised that, with all your experience, you still consider that manufacturers are some kind of benevolent uncle.
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There is limited number of ingredients that constitute a lipstick and, unless you are introducing a new ingredient into your product (which I very much doubt), you can assume that all components have been thoroughly tested previously. You should be able to get assurances from suppliers that each ingredient is suitable for the end use you intend.
There is certainly no need to paint your lipstick on to a pig’s face or poke it into the eyes of a rabbit. These practices are way in the distant past (and a lot of misinformation was published about them in the “popular” press).
This applies to all cosmetic products.
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When I worked with LABSA we always used its self-indicating property for neutralisation. The free acid is very dark brown in colour. The neutralised product is a pale yellow. This is easier to see in bulk and with care and experience it is possible to pretty much achieve a neutral product by this method alone.
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@palerider Why add fairy dust to a functional product?
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From my days of working with LABSA in one of my professional incarnations, the LOI says to me that the product contains a fully neutralised alkylbenzenesulfonic acid so you can forget about using the free acid yourself and opt for the ready neutralised version if that is all that is available.
The reason for using the free acid is a matter of economics in transportation. The free acid is 99+% active, sodium salt (or other neutralised versions) contain appreciable amounts of water (in liquid versions) or inorganic filler - usually sodium sulfate - in powder products.
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I’ve always steered well clear of anything connected with aromatherapy or its peripheral pseudoscience.
A lot/most/all of it is complete nonsense aimed at the gullible by the unscrupulous.
As scientists ourselves, I think it would be wise for us all to do likewise - even if you don’t agree with my views, there is always the regulating authorities to consider.
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https://oatcosmetics.com/ is a major supplier of this material. They are based in the UK. Their US distributor is http://www.charkit.com/
How much of this material do you need? You could always make your own http://colloidaloatmeal.com/make_your_own_colloidal_oatmeal/
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No, that is not the required material.
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Mark, this thread has been resurrected from 2013 - I don’t think the originator cares very much now.
I was caught out this morning by the same overkeen newbie.
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That is correct for the dyestuff.
Regarding the stearyl-5-ethoxylate, you already told us that you have a source (Bonnymans or Mistral)
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The whole concept is potentially dangerous. I strongly suggest that you get more practical formulation experience before you think about semi-pharmaceuticals.
Regarding sodium bicarbonate, it will generate carbon dioxide in the cream and alter its characteristics.
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The materials are mixed and melted together with the dyestuff.
Both materials contribute to the foam. -
There is no point in us making any comments as you’ve already experienced undesirable effects from your experimentation but you are persisting in this potentially dangerous exercise.
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Be very, very careful in formulating products like this, especially if intended for the face. If I were you I would give up now and look at something with less potential risk of harm.
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Another exhumation.
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Just noticed the starting date on this thread.
Why is JOJO91343 carrying out these exhumations?
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Why is it assumed that this is an emulsion? Its name idicates that it is a solution and this is made more apparent by the clarity of the product.
Ferulic acid will be most likely present at 1% or less, meaning that there is an efficient water/glycol ether/glycol solvent mixture which should take care of the minor quantities of any low water soluble ingredients.
Note also there is potassium hydroxide listed - this will, in part at least, neutralise acidic components.
The current LOI differs somewhat from that declared above viz:
Water (Aqua), Ethoxydiglycol, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Potassium
Azeloyl Diglycinate, Ferulic Acid, Retinol, Glycyrrhiza Glabra
(Licorice) Root Extract, Arctostaphylos Uva Ursi Leaf Extract, Arbutin,
Morus Alba Leaf Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract, Salicylic
Acid, Glycolic Acid, Mandelic Acid, Hexylresorcinol, Sodium Hyaluronate,
Panthenol, Quercetin, Disodium Lauriminodipropionate Tocopheryl
Phosphates, Ubiquinone, Phospholipids, Disodium EDTA, PVM/MA Decadiene
Crosspolymer, Urea, Potassium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol.The position of ferulic acid has been changed, quercetin caprylate has been changed to quercetin, polysorbate 20 has been removed.
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What natural cleaning agents will you be using in your shampoo?
I have never heard of soda ash or caustic soda being an ingredient in a shampoo and I’ve been in this business nearly fifty years. Where did you learn this?
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You can still add PEG40 hydrogenated castor oil to your current formulations to try out its effect.
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I worked on a castor oil based beard product some time ago. It didn’t get to market, not because it was no good but because my client overstepped his fincancial capabilities.
Castor oil has the advantage that, although a triglyceride, it is highly resistant to oxidation (with resultant gumming up and rancidity problems). It is also soluble in alcohol if you require alcohol based products and is a good solvent for fragrances and essential oils. Best of all, it feels good in the beard and on skin, not being excessively greasy or oily to the touch.
There are a number of emulsifiers/detergents based on castor oil. You will have to forgo the “natural” aspect, but I think you will have to do that any way to achieve anything like your requirements.
Probably the most widely used castor oil emulsifier is known as PEG40 hydrogenated castor oil. It is quite safe - it is even used as an emulsifier for injectable drugs. It is also quite easily obtainable in small quantities rather than the tonne amounts which some materials limited to.
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There is lots of info on here already - just enter pomade into the search box (top, right)
My personal view about the “natural” aspect is that you are creating loads of easily soluble problems by avoiding just a modicum of man made material.
Be aware that the majority of emulsifiers and similar materials have a substantial natural component.
(A bit of pointless info: I have a full 6 inch long beard.)
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As it appears that you are in the UK, stearyl alcohol 21-ethoxylate is available from The Soap Kitchen https://www.thesoapkitchen.co.uk/acatalog/emulsifying-wax-steareth-21.html#SID=119
Although not quite 25 ethoxylate, the difference will not be noticed in a product of this type.
Cetyl stearyl alcohol (or anything similar) will NOT boost foam.
Please heed the advice from Belassi and from me earlier>
To be honest, it isn’t really worthwhile doing-it-yourself.