[johnb]

What is “taurate paste”? Do you mean something like sodium methyl cocoyl taurate? If so then it should be pointed out that this is an anionic surfactant which is incompatible with cationics (behentrimonium chloride) and the functionality of at least one of the components will be nullified.

2.7% essential oil is far, far too high in any toiletry product. Ensure that you assess the fragrance level “in use” rather than sniffing the bulk product in the bottle. Only by doing that can you judge the real effect. Levels as high as you suggest can cause irritation on sensitive scalps (depending on the particular oil(s) you are using).

[johnb]

For a different approach to this, may I suggest a plant derived viscosifier/ slipperiness enhancer - similar in properties to hyaluronic acid.

The material is tamarind gum. A cosmetic/pharma grade is sold under the name Xilogel from Indena http://www.indena.com/products/xilogel/

It could be used for wholly or partially replacing Natrosol (or whatever you decide to go with) and offers much improved and better sensorial properties.

You will also be able to show your boss something competely different and perhaps move her away from her apparent fixation on using silicones.

[johnb]

I’m somewhat doubtful about being able to do anything with the mix you are using.

I’ve never been a fan of silicones in cosmetic products - caused me more problems than they ever solved.

I don’t understand the formulation you have quoted. It should total 100 - it doesn’t! If it really contained 55% of Natrosol HHR it would most likely be a hard solid block.

[johnb]

I am unsurprised. Silicones are generally extremely problematic to formulate - especially in aqueous media.

Perhaps you might like to consider silicone surfactants without silicone oils present. There are several grades available.

I cannot recommend one against another as DC have changed their nomenclature system since I was active in formulation work.

http://www.dowcorning.com/content/discover/discoverchem/forms-mixtures-surfactants.aspx

Edit: The name of the surfactant was DC193

[johnb]

In that case, may I suggest that you search amongst the bigger fragrance houses for those that are represented where you are.

A quick index is offered here http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/
Some on that list are raw materials suppliers and do not supply finished perfume compounds but many of them do.

I should emphasise that the list is not comprehensive and several of the biggest fragrance houses are not represented e.g IFF, Givaudan

[johnb]

My understanding of the term “green chemistry” fits more with the monograph offered in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_chemistry - hence my previous comment.

 

[johnb]

Most reputable perfume houses have an office, or at least an agent, in New Zealand or Australia.

It is a matter of scale whether they would be interested in supplying you. If you are a “home industry” user of fragrance compounds then, I believe that you will be obliged to use the suppliers (or equivalents of) that you already use.

[johnb]

I think you may have misunderstood the raison d’être of this forum.

The main aim is for discussions on cosmetic science and chemistry.

Of course, green chemistry does come under this heading it but does not occupy any more importance here than it does in many other modern scientific disciplines.

[johnb]

The thing(s) that is/are missing in your DWL is a reasonable level of surfactant.

[johnb]

So many try. So many fail.

If you want to start your own cosmetic business it is vital that you acquire some basic knowledge of the business yourself.

I have said many times that cosmetics is not a business where you can “invent” a product and then sit back and watch the profits rolling in - whilst eating lobsters and drinking champagne on a daily basis.

Please do some research to find out just what you are letting yourself in for.

[johnb]

- - - and the remaining 20.3% is?

[johnb]

JohnB you give me any perfume and i can dupe it using EO and Fo it is not hodge podge.

No, you cannot.

[johnb]

Something tht strikes me as the ideal for your end use is polyethylene oxide (Polyox). I have mentioned it several times recently on this forum.

Certain grades of Polyox approach the ideal in terms of slipperiness and lubricity. Have a look at http://www.dow.com/dowwolff/en/industrial_solutions/resources/literature/index.htm using the first pdf hit in the list.

The problem may be obtaining a sample of the material - Dow are rather reticent in providing samples if they cannot see a prospect of reasonably large sales.

I have offered elsewhere on this forum some links (use the search box) to obtain small amounts of a single grade of the material which you could use for a tryout.

[johnb]

I assume 55% HHE is a typo but, that aside, my view is that you would be better off using a lower viscosity grade (H or even M rather than HH) at a higher concentration. You will than get a product with more controllable viscosity at small variatons of Natrosol concentration.

I don’t really understand why you are including silicones. I just see that (from a simplistic point of view) just introduces unnecessary stability difficulties.

[johnb]

HEC is normally quite stable. You have not given any information regarding ingredients apart from your product contains HEC.

Does the mask contain any antimicrobial preservative (as both DRBOB and I have asked)? Microbial contamination seems the most likely cause of your problem, not being privy to any other information regarding composition.

[johnb]

You state that you regard your product as a cosmetic yet you also state it is for psoriasis and seborrhoeic dermatitis- presumably this means the treatment of these conditions. This fact makes makes your product a medicine irrespective of the concentration of any API.

[johnb]

Few, if any, modern perfumes are composed entirely of natural materials. Many perfumes are 100% synthetic.

The notes and fragrance nuances accepted and expected in a perfume nowadays are simply not obtainable from natural sources.

Perfume creation, as I intimated above, is highly complicated, involves a knowledge of thousands of perfumery raw materials and their interaction with one another. Perfumers have a number of years of training and even then, the acquired knowledge requires flair together with an artistic and creative talent to be able to formulate anything that could be properly called a perfume, rather than merely a hotch-potch mixture of aroma chemicals (with or without natural components).

Experienced perfumers are aware of how their raw materials palette behaves in the presence of other materials, including product bases and how their creations might be modified to suit any potential problems with stability and compatibility within different product types and, if they do not have this knowledge, there is normally a technical backup team to carry out any work necessary to establish suitable modifications.

Because of this, the prospect of a computer generated perfume remains in the realms of science fiction many, many years in the future.

Regarding IFRA. Together with RIFM, these organisations are primarily concerned with the safety of perfume materials rather than any creative aspects. Neither will be of much direct use to you in the early stages, provided that you take heed of any restrictions they impose.

[johnb]

I recall having similar discussions re salicylic acid with you previously.

If you want an anti-dandruff/antiseborrhoeic activity then, yes the free acid is necessary.

There are a number of less aggressive and more up-to-date materials you could use which have A/D//A/S activity.

Depending on where you are located, you may need to register your product as a drug or medicine.

[johnb]

Neutralised salicylic acid has little or no dermatological activity.

[johnb]

It might be wise to investigate why the pH of your shampoo is so low.

[johnb]

It’s hard to believe but one of the homophobics (I have about 3 quite
paranoid ones in my family who rather get polio than a vaccine):

Homophobics?

[johnb]

Could I neutralize it with citric acid?

Lactic acid may be better - you will then have an additional moisturiser/skin conditioner in your product.

[johnb]

There is a lot more to fragrances than essential oils - as you will see if you check the IFRA web site http://www.ifraorg.org/

Fragrance and fragrance formulation is a highly specialised business not to be undertaken lightly by the tyro. The very fact that you have posed this query shows that you have a very long and steep learning curve ahead.

[johnb]

There are also strict regulations as to what can and cannot be used in cosmetic products and even stricter rules regarding what is used to preserve them.

[johnb]

I agree with Mark’s suggestion. Oat flour/colloidal oat meal has proven properties and is a nice ingredient to use - can help stabilise emulsions!