johnb
Forum Replies Created
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To explain my first reply.
I got the impression that you wanted development work carrying out to formulate products according to the criteria you laid out in your post.
It is unreasonable to expect anyone here to carry out any formulation work for free so it is reasonable to offer some initial incentive or at least enquire about fees that might be levied.
However as has been explained in further posts in this thread, your idea or dream has been quashed by having explained to you the reality of cosmetics ingredients and their origins.
Something that has not been mentioned; some of the listed ingredients are of animal origin - beeswax, silk powder, pearl powder and carmine (which is made from crushed beetles).
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Have you tried a glycol (e.g dipropylene glycol)/surfactant blend.
As a surfactant, possibly an amine oxide, a betaine or one of the more recent glucoside or amino acid derived surfactants.
This is only my thoughts - I’ve not tried it in practice, but 5% eucalyptus, 0.5% menthol, 60% dipropylene glycol, the remainder made up with the surfactant.
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Are you sure you want to use iron oxides for this purpose?
All grades of iron oxide are strongly coloured. Any amount applied to the skin will be visible and possibly/probably unwanted.
Think carefuly about user acceptibility before you proceed much further.
Regarding the specifics of your question, I doubt that anyone has investigated the spectrum absorbing qualities of iron oxides for the end uses you intend.
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If you look at the pagina 36 in your link you will see that “steric” is quoted to be not confused with “stearic”.
The meaning of steric hindrance is completely different to anything under consideration here at this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steric_effects
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It doesn’t just apply to hydrocarbons. Any oily material soaked on to an absorbent surface can behave in a similar way - and it doesn’t necessarily need a source of flame to initiate a conflagration.
One company I worked for had a small spillage (10 or so litres) of a vegetable oil mixture which they collected up using old pieces of cotton cloth which was then left in a steel drum over night. During that time an oxidation reaction began between the (unsaturated) oil and air. Being more or less contained in the drum, the mixture became hotter and hotter thus the reaction became faster and faster and it caught alight.
Fortunately the damage sustained was fairly minor but it certainly pays to be aware of these possibilities.
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- - - and your payment terms are?
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To clarify my stance here.
It is not a case of me personally disapproving formaldehyde or IPBC or phenoxyethanol or benzoic acid or parabens or anything else. It is what customers and the buying public have been (in many cases) brainwashed into believing by the vast number of extremist websites, blogs, general misinformation sources and which, far from being dismissed for the “fake news” ( to use a vogue term) that they are and are taken into an increasingly generally perceived position that all cosmetics are bad for mankind.
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Have you changed the source of the water? The mere presence of EDTANa4 will alkalise clean water so I am thinking that it’s the water or a different batch/brand of BTMS.
A practical point (nothing to do with your current problem) isthat you may be better making the emulsion by phase inversion in which the water phase is added to the oil phase. Apart from tending to form a finer grained emulsion, this way round will avoid losses from the residues in the oil phase remaining in the container.
I doubt the canine clients will be bothered much by the presence of the
snake oil ingredients (green tea leaf , Hibiscus, witch hazel or manuka
honey) especially in those almost homeopathic quantities. -
Your understanding of the term “steric hindrance” is totally at odds with mine and I cannot see any indication that steric hindered structures are present in stearic acid or cetyl alcohol or that either of them contribute to sterically hindered molecules.
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Small quantities of SAPDMA can be bought from https://www.aromantic.co.uk/home/products/emulsifiers/conditioner-emulsifier.aspx
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The “benefits” of essential oils are grossly overestimated and only of interest to fringe practitioners of alternative therapies.
Fragrance oils may well contain essential oils - they are not mutually exclusive.
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Phenoxyethanol is found in nature in chicory and in green tea. It is not necessarily manufactured from a petroleum feedstock.
What I’m trying to say is that the “anti” fanatics can find always find something to fit their argument so:
Benzoic acid (so popular amongst the naturals lovers) is widely found in nature but by far the greatest amount in commercial use is synthetic - possibly being made from petroleum via benzene (definitely not something you want in your cosmetic).
It is always best to keep a sense of proportion in these matters.
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No, I wouldn’t correct you on this. My comments were also influenced not only by the presence of stearic acid and TEA but also of xanthan gum and perhaps magnesium aluminum silicate (if that is Veegum or similar). These last would not be able to fully exert their influence in a W/O system.
A simple test for emulsion type is to add a small amount of a water soluble dye (solid or in strong solution) to a sample of the product being examined. If the dye dissolves into the mass of the sample then water is the continous phase.
Have you seen this (it may be of use to you):
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I’m just being ultra cautious!
You agree about the freezer, though, Perry?
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I tend to avoid using preservatives if at all possible (most times it is not) hence the freezer.
I would not use the preservative you suggest under any circumstances as it contains a formaldehyde releaser (Diazolidinyl Urea) and Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate is becoming increasing suspect as a contact allergen.
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I think your first task is to translate the INCI speak into real life ingredients, particularly PVP/hexadecene copolymer, VP/eicosene polymer, magnesium aluminum silicate and also ensure that all the components are available to small users.
Regarding the phase relationship, I’m pretty certain it’s O/W (from the position of water in the LOI and the presence of stearic acid, polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate and triethanolamine as emulsifiers.
Personally, as a starting project, I would formulate something easier and with a wider application such as a cream or lotion. Colour cosmetics such as the one you exemplify can be far from easy to prepare without pigment dispersing equipment.
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If you have a deep freezer then that is the best way to preserve the quantities that you are dealing with. It also avoids using artificial preservatives which you might being wishing to avoid.
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I am not familiar with Sepigel 305 but, from what I have read, it is best mixed with the oil phase when forming the emulsion.
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And the emulsifier is?
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My first suspect ingredient for producing any stange smell would be the witch hazel (is it extract or distilled? either way, it smells). Next would be the Imwitor 375 producing off odours on storage (linoleates are not very stable towards oxidation).
I can’t explain the loss of aroma on storage other than unsuitable storage conditions but I would not recommend adding limonene/linalool/geraniol as these materials are three of the main culprits in the EU perfume allergens list.
Regarding your formulation, I would be strongly tempted to include a more conventional emulsifier along with the Olivem & Imwitor and to avoid potassium sorbate.
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I doubt it’s incompatibility between those two materials but a problem with the formula you are using.
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I’m not sure a gate mixer (as illustrated) would be suitable. For it to work properly you must ensure that all parts (except the drive shaft) are fully immersed at all times.
Regarding the mixer speed, a slow mix for a longer time is a safer option to prevent air entrainment.
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You must supply more details of the formula before any reasoned comment can be made.
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In what way do you mean - physically or chemically?
There is no chemical incompatibility and as for physical compatibility, test that for yourself by mixing the two materials together
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Have you considered sodium lauroyl sulfoacetate (Lathanol) or sodium lauroyl sarcosinate (Sarkosyl).
You might want to look at detergent mixtures if you want particularly high foam levels. I can’t suggest any mixture in particular as the possible combinations are vast but, amine oxides are worth a try.