johnb
Forum Replies Created
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I believe the enquirer is working from an INCI LOI where stearalkonium hectorite and propylene carbonate appear as separate components rather than being a preformulated Bentone Gel.
Dariawes, what issues are you having with your formula? The stearalkonium hectorite/propylene carbonate combination (+ most likely another oil) act as pigment suspending agents.
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I don’t wish to appear completely unhelpful but, your access to Internet search engines is the same as mine. Why not search for the information yourself? -
I have never heard of a water based nail polish that has more than a very temporary effect and I can see big reasons why it would not be a practical concept.
Can you enlighten me?
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There was a beer shampoo marketed in the UK for many years under the brand name Linco (previously Lin-co-Lin). Originally a British owned manufacturer taken over by US based Church & Dwight and then discontinued due to poor sales.
The original shampoo did actually contain about 5% of real beer but I feel that later versions had just a beer or hop based fragrance (the Church & Dwight version was very different to the original).
There is currently Anelco beer shampoo available in the UK. This is a fairly conventional formulation with added wheat germ and hops extracts.
Anelco INCI LOI:
Aqua (Water),Sodium, Laureth Sulfate,Glycol Stearate, Cocamidopropyl
Betaine, Sodium Chloride, Laureth-4, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis(Sweet
Almond)Oil, Triticum Vulgare(Wheat Germ)Extract, Polyquaternium-10,
Parfum(Fragrance),Cocamide Mea, Glycol Distearate, Humulus
Lupulus(Hops)Extract, Laureth-10,Magnesium Nitrate,There are several small home producers of this type of product in the UK.
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This thread is being populated by posters who seem to have no idea of the problem, who have not worked in this area and are sending formulations for items which have no connection with the subject.
I am wasting my time here.
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problems on skin are from the ink and mainly bacterial infections as I have been told
Am I missing something here? I don’t understand the relevance of this observation.
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There is a lot more to formulating a hard surface cleaner than making a seemingly random mixture of surfactant materials and hoping for the best because the best in this situation will only be very rarely achieved.
SLES in included in this type of product as a foaming agent. Its cleaning properties are very poor. It is present merely because the users expect to see a lot of foam when they wash their dishes.
The “working” surfactant is most often an alkylbenzene sulfonate. This type of surfactant has powerful grease cutting and protein removing properties but its foam is only mediocre - hence the use of SLES and/or other foam boosters such as CDEA (which also thickens the mixture).
Ideally the cleaning power (from the ABS) and the foaming power (from the SLES and amide) should be matched so that the foam collapse corresponds with the detergency (cleaning power).
The is no way that any of the formulae offered above could give a marketable product - that is one that a consumer would buy a second bottle.
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The substances you exemplify are products of the chemical factory and are far from being natural.
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A blood alcohol test before a tattoo is carried out would do a lot to avoid tattoo problems and their subsequent difficult removal.
But that doesn’t answer the question posed. The truth is that these creams do not work. The makers of the products themselves state that they take several months (therefore $$ or ££ or €€) to show any effect and then it is only minimal as the TCA content is only enough to impart a characteristic odour.
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Ignore what textbooks may tell you and use official lists for the area you are interested in for the authoritative list of UV filters for use in cosmetic products.
I’m not suggesting this is the case here but textbooks cannot be updated except by a new print or edition. Online regulations can be updated immediately and as often as is necessary.
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I think there are more important problems with this than the choice of preservative & fragrance.
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On a social point, it is very unwise to post your email in public spaces such as this.
Unscrupulous people/organisations use bots to search through sites such as this one to harvest any published email addresses to use for nefarious purposes.
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You will need more than two sufactants (however mild they may be) and a thickener if you want anyone to use your shampoo more than once. There is much more to a shampoo than cleansing - that is why some very large companies have large departments dedicated to shampoo formulation.
I honestly think you should learn more about shampoos before you proceed much further. If nothing else, check out the LOI of products already on the market. You can do this easily by checking manufacturers web sites and looking for ingredients.
BTW xanthan gum is a very poor thickener when used alone.
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You could look at the ingredient decalarations of the products you are trying to imitate and omit the you find superfluous. Similarly, with the soap shampoo bars. Are these actually soap or are they soap/detergent blends? The use of a combination will often eliminate the residues problem.
Why are you so concerned about the anhydrous aspect? If, as you claim, you have formulations that work, I don’t understand why the presence of a minor amount of water is a problem.
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The most convenient way to find dishwashing formulations is to look at detergent manufacturers websites and find sample formulations.
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The Linear Alkaline Benzene Sulfonic Acid (LABSA 96% PURIFIED) requires to be neutralised with an alkali before it can act as a detergent and to be fully soluble in water.
There is far, far too much sodium chloride present. This may be either not dissolving in the mix or it may be causing the detergents to precipitate.
Can you explain “5 it’s tap water (PURIFIED)”? Also, what is “anti-cebo”?
Have you tested the dishwashing efficiency of this mixture? At a first glance, the ratio of the two detergents are wrong - SLES is good for producing foam but its dirt removing properties are very poor.
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As this is a “new concept”, can you tell us how the product is intended to be used?
I’m not trying to dissuade you but what makes you think that your idea hasn’t been thought of, and rejected or fallen away from the shop shelves previously?
I’m old enough to remember powder shampoos which were mixed with water just before use (the powder had a strong sternutatory action characteristic of many powdered detergents). They were sold under the Vaseline brand and I still remember the green and yellow packet.
There were also leaf shampoos. These were made from a sheet of thin paper impregnated with a strong detergent solution and dried. They were sold under the name “Water Lilies”. The idea was to wet the hair and rub the Water Lily sheet on the head to release the active. The idea was good in one way as it prevented overuse of the shampoo material.
If your product is in the form of a bar to be used in a similar way to soap, I should emphasise that synthetic detergents behave in a completely different way in their behaviour in water compared to soap. It took a lot of development work to formulate products such as Dove bars so that they didn’t disappear as an unpleasant sludge shortly after contact with water.
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Are you using LABS as the free acid or as a salt? If as a salt, what is the neutralising material?
What are the proportions of each component?
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Is this an innovative formulation or are you emulating an already marketed product? If the latter, which product(s)?
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The trituration method is applicable to all mixing of small into large quantities. It is easy to do (it takes longer to describe than it does to carry it out) an, when done properly, ensures to have a well mixed product.
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I note that Plantaren APB is a mixture of ALES and ALS. I have never used ammonium neutralised detergents from choice but, whenever I have used them I’ve found that NaCl to adjust viscosity caused the system to collapse. This was corrected by avoiding alkali metal salts and using NH4Cl in their stead.
You may find also, that using pro rata amounts of sorbic acid and benzoic acid rather than the salts would help. At that level, I expect them to dissolve in the detergent base.
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Ragarding brucine. It is an extremely toxic alkaloid closely related to strychnine - the poison of choice in a lot of early to mid-20th century crime novels, in particular Agatha Christie.
Strychnine was used for poisoning dogs, wolves and foxes and I seem to recall (although I can’t find the reference) that these species are unable to detect the bitter taste of strychnine thus avoiding aversion reactions when administered to the animals. This ageusia most likely carries over to brucine, considering the close similarity in structure.
Denatonium benzoate is more bitter than brucine and much less toxic (acute po LD50 in rats of 485-740 mg/kg vs 1mg/Kg for brucine)
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If you have a world beating, unique, wonder product (as you seem to be intimating) another approach, rather than going through the hassle of trying to break into a market you know nothing about, would be to take out IP protection and then to license/sell the rights to a known manufacturer.
I have done this three times now and the royalties provide me with a very comfortable way of life in my retirement (if only my state of health matched, but that’s not for these pages). I have little or no input to the businesses apart from signing renewal documents each year and checking my bank account each quarter.
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To achieve 0.2% concentration in your product you require to use 4 times the amount of 25% solution which is 0.8% in product.
Why are you adding the sorbate at this stage? It is far better to add during mixing before emulsfication to ensure adequate distribution in the product.
If it is completely necessary to add at this late time you would be best using trituration for mixing. To do this, place the required amount of your sorbate solution in a vessel large enough to contain the total amount of product and add an equal quantity of the finished lotion. Mix well. The lotion may split at this stage with the high content of electrolyte, but persevere. Next add double the amount of lotion and likewise mix well. Next add double the previous amount of lotion. By doubling up at each addition (geometric progression) you will soon have the whole amount of lotion mixed and the sorbate evenly distributed.