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@ Perry, thanks for your response. I think “science doesn’t have the answer to that yet” is a totally acceptable way to end a debate. I really appreciate everyone’s input on this!

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I use polysorbate 80 as a solubilizer in my bath bombs and have no problem with it. My question is an attempt to resolve a debate I was having with someone about whether a formula including fragrance oil but without a solubilizer would be safe.

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I’m a scientist (in a field entirely unrelated to cosmetic chemistry… ice and permafrost) who makes soap and lotion and bath bombs for friends and family as a hobby. I guess I just prefer my safety info to come from scientists rather than marketers.

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@Belassi, because I’m not convinced that Lush products are properly formulated, and because I don’t necessarily trust a retailer to tell me if their products are garbage… especially considering the profit they make.

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Yes, modified starches like Natrasorb would work too.

I guess maybe my question wasn’t super clear. I’m just wondering if a product like bath salts with an ingredient list of salts + fragrance (+colour) is safe, since it will leave undiluted fragrance oil floating on top of the bath water, coating the bather as they get in the water.

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Well, yes… I was worrying about it more from a skin safety perspective, but I guess ruining plumbing is another reason not to have free-floating oil in the tub.

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Yes, the fact that there is so little fragrance that it is probably unlikely to agglomerate is the only reason I can imagine that it might be considered safe to use an unemulsified fragrance oil in this kind of product. Other than the fact that most people also use some kind of surfactant while in the bath, effectively solubilizing the fragrance oil as an unintended consequence.

Personally, I always include a solubilizer when I make this kind of thing, but another person and I were having a bit of a debate about the issue.

I’m kind of wondering at this point if it isn’t almost an issue of semantics; like sure, it would be technically “unsafe” to use undiluted fragrance, but is unlikely to cause harm in practice due to the small quantities and probable incidental solubilization. The devil is in the details, hahah.

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Another kind of vague reference from a textbook (Poucher’s Perfumes, Cosmetics, and Soap, 10th Ed., 2000): “Normally, about 0.5-1.0% of perfume is added to the crystals, but all perfumes should be diluted before they are added. …It should be borne in mind that the solvent is ultimately lost by evaporation, and this adds to the cost of the product. Denatured ethanol or isopropyl alcohol are suitable alcohols to use, but a water-soluble type of perfume can also be employed.”

Emphasis added.

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Thanks, I’m familiar with hydrosols and other water soluble fragrances, but what I’m wondering is if it is obligatory to use those instead of oil-based fragrances when scenting an unsolubilized, oil-free bath salt or bomb.

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Thanks Perry, you’re right. My supplier recommends 0.1-0.5% for hair applications. I must’ve been thinking of the higher percentages recommended for skin applications. 🙂 

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Thanks so much for the replies.

I’ve done some experimenting since I posted my questions. I’ve been able to get a stable emulsion with 3% SD, 7% cetearyl alcohol, 1% citric acid, and q.s. water with 0.2% powdered Germall Plus, 2% liquid panthenol, and 0.2% fragrance added at cool-down. Now I just have to try to get 0.5% dimethicone (350 cst, as that’s all I have) and ~3% cyclomethicome in there and I’ll more-or-less have what I’m looking for! pH is about 4.5.

I think I initially had stability problems due to insufficient citric acid, and possibly also thanks to Optiphen Plus destabilizing the emulsion…

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Hi all! I’m Amaris from Canada. I’ve been a soap maker for about three years, and now I’m venturing into home crafting of skin care products. I’m a scientist by education - MSc in geography - so my expertise is in Earth science, but I have an okay knowledge of chemistry. I suppose I got into this because I have very fickle skin and hair, because there are so many more options than soap, and of course what is more fun than doing chemistry experiments in your kitchen!?

I’ve been reading this forum for quite a while, so it’s exciting to get to participate now!