[Ghita37]

I apologise as i didnt mean to send this post above before checking for errors. I typed fast and now i wanted to edit and delete to make a new one but the editing option is not there. So I apologize again  

[Ghita37]

@jemolian i have been procrastinating a lot because im scared to be frank because i still think i must get some work done before i can test; ok if i want to take ACTIONS IS IT OKAY IF I MAKE the small batch and test even with no brand concept/Lets say i make 30 units per sku and go to a pharmacy or drugstore but i dont have a concept/All im armed with are my products; their feqtures; what kind of skin type they suit; what each ingredeint does and why i put this and this ingredeint and how am different from Laroche and Cerave etc and this is my price point/This is all i have/ For the cleanser Please Jemolian if you can explain what you mean when you said dont overthink the oil cleanser; does that mean pick another cleanser; cus me personally i dont have a personaly story wiht cleansers lolol the reason why inpicked it even without doing survey or anything is because whenever i go to pharcmacies here i only see the sqme cleanser types: micellar water; gel; foam, milk, cream never saw oil cleansers so i said UMMM LETS INNOVATE Ghita; u can introduce sthg new:But this has a flip side which is that it qill require me or soeone else toe ducate people on what is an oil clenaser and my purpse at this stag is not to educate bit to sell; MZAKE MONEY because this is what i need now. So i said ok lets do a product like laroche Posay a gentle milk or cream cleanser and have that sell fast:Then you told me whats the pint and i agree 1000000 percent and this is what i need help with/Why x person would buy my milk or cream cleanser; how is mine different and this is WHERE IM STUCK and need SERIOUS HELP. Could you please accompany me in this because im trying to find out and dont see:Would it be a good starting point to check what the local competiton meaning indie bvrand like me are doing in terms of cleansers? because my add was to simply check the negative revuews on anamzon of Laroche posay and improve on that or like you said DO A SURVEY and see what people care aboiut 

[Ghita37]

Hi @Jemolian. I tend to read your messages twice to dissect every idea you suggest. First off i dont have a mentor or a business consultant.Im working on my own and i took a vow that i will procastinate less and DO MORE; 
sECOND ok lets make things clear, my INTENTION is to SELL not EDUCATE. So for this as per Mark i did a quick research into the top selling cleansers in the Moroccan market cleansing oil are not too common though certain brands do them like cerave and uriage so you find them. 
Now with regards to differentiation since my purpose is to SELL well there is no point in duplicating what the competito is doing if im not offering something different. ok i get that now 🙂 Im just confused now a lot.You said the diff factor depends on the brand concept but i dont have that yet/So does that mean i should test my prodeucts yet only when i have a brand concept? 
Also you said: personally dont overthink the cleanser, so are you saying dont focus on a cleanser focus on a leave on product? ( im just trying to underdstand so when i implement i implement based on what i understood) So what i get is : strike a balance between your cleanser ( oil or gel or whateevr) and keeping a good margin to sustain my business.So if for example a cleanwer sells at 13 usd and mine costs _ to make and i sell at 20 BUT NO ONE buys then im at loss or if they sell but the price is low compared to competition and then i decide to move it upwards then its a mistake as you said. so the price should help my business be sustainable and yet the product is in demand and doesnt cost much to produce; that is the main idea right? 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone.Im still thinking about your advices @Jemolian :Why would people buy from me if i merely duplicate Laroche Posay so try to differentiate myself in costing; marketing or margin. I dont know what the last two ones mean

Also in terms of suggestions; @MarkBroussard said look at what sells the most in Morocco in terms of cleansers and go do that ; So as per my research of the top selling cleansers i saw gels, foam, gentle lotion like that of cerave.Ok so if i want to SELL not EDUCATE and offer a product like that is on the market i can do a gentle cleansing lotion but id i want to differentiate can i add to it mandelic acid so it would cleanse and gentley exfoliate; because this is how i understand when you ask me to differentiate? But if i put mandelic acid can people use it everyday? Can you please help as i want to be different but not sure what i should do? Thank you so much 

Also @Pattsi said :My little humble advice - don’t decide based on what you have read on internet or what you thought. Correct data and information, why your target don’t like to use micellar, why some don’t like cleansing oil, why some like balm and you will see what you should sell, micellar or balm or oil or both or neither. So I will know this info from the survey right? 

And you should be looking into makeup remover category rather than facial cleanser. why is thta? 

[Ghita37]

@jemolian kindly guide me some more because its a first time for me and i just want to have the basics nailed down. 

[Ghita37]

@jemolian your point is so important and i cant stop thibking about it.

I’ll recommend standing out and differentiating your product in another way. You have to think about it yourself. As mentioned the surveying helps if you know what people have issues with when using similar products. 

Just to be more active on my end can i still formulate the gentle cleanser for dry skin something similar to LaRoche Posay and give 50 ml samples for people to try; give to 30 people and give them surveys as well and also give 50 ml of the cleansing oil to 30 pople either the same people or other people. So at least they can answer the survey and also give feedback in regards to my two cleansers: the oil and the gentle water based cleanser like Laroche.So with their feedback ill know what works more oil or the other and ill know what to improve/ do you think this is a good plan? 

[Ghita37]

Hello @”Dr Catherine Pratt” thank you so much for your message. I just emailed you few minutes ago. I look forward to hearing from you. 
Many thanks :smiley:

[Ghita37]

Hello @jemolian im super grateful for your reply here. 
Can you please explain what you mean whether i can compete in costing/profit marging/marketing.I dont undestqnd how can i compete in profit margin and in marketing, can you give an example to make it clear? 

You said there are many ways to differentiate myself, can you kindly guide me here with some hints. I really dont know. 

Thank you once more 🙂

[Ghita37]

.Hello @jemolian, awesome much appreciated!!
I just want to comment the last answer you provided as i didnt understand very well. You said:

This is up to you. The price point of those products you referred shouldn’t be that expensive, so fighting a price war by being more price competitive is not your best choice if you are starting out. I’ll recommend standing out and differentiating your product in another way. You have to think about it yourself. As mentioned the surveying helps if you know what people have issues with when using similar products

So ill answer here
the price point of these products i mentioned is as follows: 
Toleriane by Laroche Posay dermo Nettoyant 400ML at 13.73 USD and three pharma sell it at that price.It is now on sales; original price was 21 USD.
Cetaphil sells at 14.30 usd was originally at 21.64 usd for 500ML 
Cerave 473 ML at 12.39 usd and before was at 18.59 USD
Avene 
Uriage 

Im noticing they all come in big sizes.But as a new brand can i go with smaller size to test? 

Also what do you mean when you said that being more price competitive is not your best choice/Are you saying my price should be a slightly higher than the prices i just gave above? Well i that case people will say: you are not Laroche Posey and you are more expensive than Laroche, who are you? 

So by standing out and differentiating myself- can this be through an ingredient that is not present in the laroche for example or avene or cerave or cetaphil? how else can i be different? 

[Ghita37]

[Ghita37]

Dear Jemolian.Thank you for your reply. 

Ok so my intention is follow Mark Broussard advice which is to follow the top selling products and do that so ill have 30 samples of for instance a gentle milk cleanser like the Cerave or Toleriane by Laroche Posay and will also do 30 cleansing oils and see which ones will sell the most on my booth. They are both for the same skin type: dry and senstitive. 

Quick question: when the product lathers too much; this means there is a high concentration of surfactant and thus not suitable for dry skins right? So fr dry and senstive skin does it mean the surfactant dosage should be kept minimal? 

Also im doing as Mark said which is to check the competition in terms of cleansers and see what ingredients they use. So for example im checking La Roche Posay Tolerian cleanser and Cetaphil gentle cleanser( because these sell a lot in Morocco) and please correct me if im wrong based on my understanding these two cleansers are water-based correct? Also from my understanding of the INCI list i see that they are fillers-filled instead of having actives that deliver results.

INCI for Toleriane by LaRoche Posay 
AQUA / WATER • ETHYLHEXYL PALMITATE • GLYCERIN • DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL • CARBOMER • SODIUM HYDROXIDE • CAPRYL GLYCOL / CAPRYLYL GLYCOL • ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN
There are no active ingredients above right? Though people rave about it; so this means the great result is only delivered by the fillers right? So does this give me a margin to offer an imrpoved version and add some actives like ceramides, hyaluronic acid, and argan oil and put rose water instead of plain water ? can i add oil? 

INCI Laroche Posay Toleriane Hydrating gentle facial cleanser

WATER • GLYCERIN • PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRAETHYLHEXANOATE • PROPANEDIOL • AMMONIUM POLYACRYLOYLDIMETHYL TAURATE • POLYSORBATE 60 • CERAMIDE NP • NIACINAMIDE • SODIUM CHLORIDE • COCO-BETAINE • DISODIUM EDTA CAPRYLYL GLYCOL • PANTHENOL • TOCOPHEROL (CODE FIL: D242855/1)

INCI for Cetaphil gentle cleanser
Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Niacinamide, Pantolactone, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid
Here again i dont see any active ingredient but only filler ingredients. tHE ONLY ACTIVE is niacinamide. 

sO as per @Ma@MarkBroussard suggestion either i offer the same product at a lower price point or develop a superior premium product at luxury price point:so does that mean adding more luxrious ingredeints? 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone;

This milk cleanser is not bad from Dermatologica. 
https://www.amazon.com/DERMALOGICA-Dermalogica-Intensive-Moisture-Cleanser/dp/B07Q4FX18Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=LHUA02O7D9MJ&keywords=best%2Bcleanser%2Bfor%2Bdry%2Bskin&qid=1671918830&sprefix=best%2Bcleanser%2Caps%2C344&sr=8-5&th=1

This Laroche Posay cleanser for senstive and dry skin is also on my radar because that one is also highly sold in Morocco
https://www.amazon.com/Roche-Posay-Toleriane-Hydrating-Gentle-Cleanser/dp/B01N7T7JKJ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=LHUA02O7D9MJ&keywords=best%2Bcleanser%2Bfor%2Bdry%2Bskin&qid=1671918830&sprefix=best%2Bcleanser%2Caps%2C344&sr=8-6&th=1

This is also sold in Morocco 

https://www.cetaphil.com/us/cleansers/gentle-skin-cleanser/302990110227.html#productIngredients

So if i want to make somethign for dry and and senstive skin i thought about these 3 products here

Thank you for your constant support and guidance. 

[Ghita37]

Id like to share with you a website of a pharmacie here in Morocco; near to my place. 
So filtered by the top selling cleansers and here is what i found:

https://paralandmahaj.com/categorie-produit/visage/demaquillants-et-nettoyants/?orderby=popularity

So results are: 
Foam
gel
cleansing oil 
micellar water
micellar water 
gel
foam 
micelallr wate
gel 
claensing foam 
gel
MICELLAR WATER
cleansing cream 
gel
micellar water
micellar
micelalr
gel 
gel 
CLEANSING CREAM 
cleansing balm 
foam
foam
foam 
cleansing balm 
cleasing cream 
micellar water
gel

Another pharmacy shows the following results online for the top selling cleansers:
https://epara.ma/category/visage/nettoyants-et-demaquillants

gel( i mean by that cleansing gel)
gel 
gel 
gel
foaming gel 
gel
cleasing milk 
cleasing milk 
milk 3 in 1 face eyes lips
milk 
milk
micellar
milk 
micellar
milk 
milk 
micellar
micellar
toner ( dont know why these are cleansers also)
micellar
micellar
micellar
mlicemllar
micellar
micellar
micellar
micellar
micellar
ùicellar
micellar
micellar
micemlar
micellar
micellar
micemlar
gel
mciellar
foam 
cleasning oil and this is what people say: 
oh its a cleansing oil not an oil to remove makeup;it foams a little bit
someone else said: i love it; in fez seconds it removes the mqkeup
someone else said: i used DHC cleansing oil before and i discovered this japanse ritual. for those zith senstive skin its by far the best option for a gentle cleansing;texture is good not too thick not too runny; i recommend cleansing oil for all those looking for a gentle to clenase their face. 
Someone else said: i love it but because of the fragrance it left my skin red 
someone else said:i wanted to try a new type of cleanser and found this cleansing oil and i love itThe textyre become milky when mixed wiht water, 
someone else said: the best for senstive skin types. a little but too liquidy for my liking but maybe because im not used to cleansing oils. 
someone else said: i have dehydrated and sensitbe skin and it doesnt leave a tightening sensation on my skin
someone else said: i bought this prodcyt cus my daughter raves about korean products/its so easy to use and efficient. 
someone else said: the first time i use this type of cleanser. makeup is removed easily; i was worried the oil would leave a film on my skin but it didnt. 
someone else said: excellent makeup remover; waterpoof makeup is not a problem for this type of cleanser; i highly recommend it.No more cotton pads and milk. milk you must use thel wiht cotton and cotton can irritate the skin versus applying wiht fingers is better and softer. 

so i think i can try with my cleansing oil, have a batch of 50 and go sell them on a booth that i bought. and maybe have also a gel next to the oil and sell both types, just two see how the market react. I said gel cus from what i shared wiht you gels sell a lot but to me they cater to two diff types of skins so they are not comparable but i just see that dry skins in morocco only have two types of cleanser; cream and milk. so lets test the oil as well/ just like the person from the review said its the first time maybe others will want to test. 

I wanted to share wiht you the full picture

[Ghita37]

In regards to the top selling cleansers in Morocco;like i said gel cleansers; foaming jelly; micellar water; cream cleanser and milk cleanser. gel cleansers sell a lot but these are for oily to acne prone skin.So from what i saw in 5 online pharmacies  GEL CLEANSERS, FOAMING GELS , JELLY CLEANSERS are the most selling cleansers; but when i read online i saw that FOAMS btw are for oily skins, gel same oily and acne prone; jelly same. So this make me understand tht either all Moroccan girls ahve oily skin and im the only one whp has dry skin or this makes me think that the milk and cleansing cream are not good enough because these i dont find them much. I want to adress the needs of dry skins and want to give them something thqt cleanser without having the tightening sensqtion when they cleanse. Can a gel be made for dry skins? 

[Ghita37]

@MarkBroussard i dont know how to thank you Mark really!!!!May God bless you and may God bless you all here. Thanks to all your advices i made lots of progress. I found the support in all of you, thank you so much 🙂
Im sending you all warm hugs from Morocco

[Ghita37]

I did a bit of research after my last message into what are the best selling cleansers here in Morocco.So i checked online 4 different pharmacies and the type that sell the moist are: gel cleansers/Foaming gel/ cleansing cream/Foaming jelly/cleansing milk/ then i saw cleansing oils. but the most popular are the ones i mentioned first. Also for cleansing oil someone said: it removes makeup easily like all other oils( so how can i set myself apart here?) Is it possible to have a cleansing oil that is different from other oils, or maybe a hybrid product between an oil and a gel? Im just thinking out loud with you all 🙂

But what I notice is that a jelly or gel texture or micellar water dont remove eye and lip makeup or stubborn sunscreen like an oil would do and the idea behind the oil is that u use a product for everyhting: remove makeup; susncreen; mascara; lip gloss/ So i want to implement your advice and do maybe a cleansing gel but how can i formulate it in such a way that it will remove lip makeup and mascara and sunscreen and also the thing behind the gel is that imagine you are so tired and just came back from a trip or party or an event and just want to crash in the bed; is the gel or foaming jelly or micelar watee the best option for a lazy person.I want my product to simplify the life of people and have them say: Oh Ghita thank you for coming up with this. 

[Ghita37]

@MarkBroussard micellar water are another type of cleanser but i find them not good to remove makeup;Why? well they are water based so you have ti apply pressure on your skin with the cotton pad to remove the makeup versus with an oil based cleanser the product just glides in your skin removing effortlessly/Dont you think so? 

[Ghita37]

@Mark i love your final idea when you said if i have the capital i can introduce a cleansing system comprised on 2 products. What do you mean by that? 

[Ghita37]

Thank you Mark so since i want to proceed the easy way; it means i should look for more common cleanser used here in Morocco and offer an improved version
So how to know what kind of cleanser is common in Morocco? Pay a visit to drusgtores and pharmacies and see what kind of cleanser sells the most correct? Is this the right approach please? 

[Ghita37]

@Pattsi I watched one day a video on Youtube on what is a product market fit and they said that product market fit is found when people buy your prodiuct not when they fill in a survey or when they say they will buy through your survey; 

They also said survey are used when you already have a target audience and and want to create a new product. Not when you’re starting out and have a product you want to test.

Searching, asking question to people whether they will buy or not will never show you the real picture.  You’ll learn more by going out there (on- or offline), sharing your product with others and talking with them.
Who your target is, you’ll learn by doing.
Why they will (or will not) purchase, you’ll learn by doing.
What you need to do next, you’ll learn by doing.

[Ghita37]

Much appreciated @Pattsi. 
In regards to your points you said: 

2_You can do 2 steps, 1 questionaire survey and start formulating accordingly, and then 2 test batch consumer panels, you can do 30, 50, 100.
We gave away tons of tester for information.

So this means that the products im creating will be a waste if the survey reveals that no one wanst them! Also how many people should i survey to have an idea of whether there is a need? So the idea like Mark said is to have some samples of my current produicts and test the market and see people’s reaction; do you think this is good also? and at the same time give the survey/So doing things in reverse : first test wiht ly products then giving survey so people tell me WHAT THEY WISH TO HAVE 

My little humble advice - don’t decide based on what you have read on internet or what you thought. Correct data and information, why your target don’t like to use micellar, why some don’t like cleansing oil, why some like balm and you will see what you should sell, micellar or balm or oil or both or neither. What kind of cleansers would you like? 

3-And you should be looking into makeup remover category rather than facial cleanser. So i researched now on google types of makeup remover and cleansing balms and oils are also meakeup remover.What kind of remover did you allude to? 

[Ghita37]

@MarkBroussard Much obliged for your return
A part of me tells me: ok seems like cleansing oils are not popular so have another cleanser.
Jemolian asked whether i want to educate or sell and at my stage i want to sell of course; so i conclude that cleansing oil are not a good choice and should pick a more popular cleanser right? 

[Ghita37]

Hello @Jemolian, Im beyond grateful for your support here 🙂

You said a very important point at the end but i want to verify that i understood it. You said:

” If you decided that your role is to sell, then go with the more popular. If you want to sell by educating, it’s also up to you”. 
So the more popular product in geenral or the more popular cleanser since im talking in this discussion about cleansing oil/So this means i choose the most popular cleanser and go do that; right? 

Then you mentioned that it depends on the surfactant.So if i use Polysorbate 80 would that be good for dry skins? 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone/ Thank you for making my entrepreneurial journey clearer and better. I wish you all a Merry Christmas  🙂

[Ghita37]

Hello dear friends

Im adding more emulsifiers to the list and would like to know your opinion on them

https://www.seppic.com/en/sepiclear-g7

https://www.seppic.com/en/montanov-l

https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidifeel-easy

https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidanov-20x

https://www.seppic.com/en/wo-make-up-remover-emulsion-eu07173

https://www.seppic.com/en/montanov-202

https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidifeel-easy

Btw could you please tell me if Polysorbate 80 prevents the greasy finish on the skin once cleaning oil is rinsed off? 

Thank you