Fedaro
Forum Replies Created
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Unfortunately, there isn’t a single magic ingredient that can be added to a pre-made fragrance oil to increase its longevity or scent retention. These factors need to be carefully considered during the initial development of the fragrance itself. I would caution against spending money on aroma chemicals unless you have a solid understanding of how to use them effectively. A great resource for learning about perfumery and fragrance development is the forum Basenotes, which specializes in these topics. You can search their old discussions about fixatives to learn more.
Big companies often hire professional perfumers to custom-develop fragrances with specific goals, like enhanced scent retention in shampoos. If creating a custom fragrance isn’t an option, trial and error with pre-made blends will likely be your best approach. For example, if you’re aiming for a strawberry-scented shampoo, you could source as many strawberry fragrance oils as possible and test them to find which one offers the best scent retention. This process may mean that your favorite fragrance oil might not perform as desired, and you’ll have to decide whether to prioritize scent retention or choose an alternative fragrance.
@ketchito is an expert and I would definitely advise you to try out his suggestion of adding Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride to help with deposition.
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Cetyl and Stearyl Alcohol are great stabilizers, but they are not dedicated emulsifiers. For a conditioner, you will likely want to add a cationic emulsifier, such as Behentrimonium Chloride, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, and/or Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, at around 1-2% (active material).
I would also recommend reducing your Isopropyl Palmitate to ~3% or less, as you want to avoid weighing the hair down. You should also consider adding a chelating agent, like Disodium EDTA, at around 0.1%, to better support your preservative system.
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Crest (P&G) is using carbomer in many of their toothpastes.
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No, there is not a preservative listed. In fact, none of the products on their website seem to list a preservative, and all of their INCI’s are written incorrectly.
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hello, i actually had the same question. i have tried fragrance at 5%, 10%, and 20% (staying within IFRA category 10B max usage level for each fragrance i tried). i also tried adding DPG at 1:1 and 2:1 ratios with the fragrance and the rest is ethanol (sold as perfumer’s alcohol, 200 proof nondenatured).
however, the smell does not last long or linger. it is nice and strong when first sprayed but vanishes in less than an hour. i tried spraying the carpets in my car at night and the smell was completely gone in the morning, but i have used some sprays where the smell remains noticeable for 2-3 days, such as the ones by Bluntpower and BluntEffects.
any suggestions would really appreciate it, thank you so much
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The study identifies two main groups: traditional preservatives (e.g., phenoxyethanol, methylparaben) and alternative multifunctional ingredients with antimicrobial properties (e.g., ethylhexylglycerin, caprylyl glycol). Nowhere in the study are these alternatives referred to as “non-chemicals.” In fact, the paper consistently describes them using terms like “alternative ingredients with antimicrobial activities” or “multifunctional ingredients with antimicrobial properties.” This distinction is important because all of these substances, whether traditional or alternative, are chemicals.
The study explicitly supports the safety of phenoxyethanol, a traditional preservative, stating that it “should be granted the highest priority” due to its well-documented safety profile. It mentions that The European Scientific Committee on Consumer Safety (SCCS) affirms its safety even for sensitive populations like children under 3 when used within regulatory limits (≤1%).
While alternative multifunctional ingredients may reduce the reliance on traditional preservatives, they are not inherently “non-chemical,” and the article does not make such a claim. This distinction matters when discussing preservation systems, as clarity and scientific accuracy should take precedence over marketing terms like “non-chemical.”
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@PhilGeis A popular combination appears to be Phenoxyethanol and Chlorphenesin. I have seen this combination used in serums by Aveeno, L’Oreal, The Ordinary (Estée Lauder), and Neutrogena. Could you share your thoughts on using these two together? Thank you!
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What are “non-chemical multifunctional antimicrobial ingredients”? Everything is a chemical, from water to air. This is borderline pandering to the “chemical-phobia” crowd while masquerading as scientific authority.
Hurdle technology is not “intelligent”, it’s duct tape for microbiological failures at best. Qualified cosmetic chemists use real preservatives to prevent consumers from rubbing E. coli, fungal infections, and bacteria soup all over their faces, because they are rigorously tested, proven to be safe and effective at their usage rates backed by decades of research and peer-reviewed studies.
Essential oils are unstandardized allergens with weak antimicrobial efficacy, degrade in formulas, have stability issues, and are wildly inconsistent batch to batch; they are not preservatives. If they were, companies like P&G would’ve replaced the preservatives in their products with essential oils and started marketing them as “preservative-free” a very long time ago.
GMP is the absolute bare minimum and most professionals rely on certified third-party testing facilities to ensure unbiased, rigorous testing that meets industry standards.
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According to the definition of “hydrate” from Google/Oxford Languages, it means “to cause to absorb water.” I’m curious how an oil, which is hydrophobic and devoid of water, could possibly add or attract water to the skin.
Hydration requires water-based ingredients, such as humectants like glycerin, hyaluronic acid, or propanediol (the latter of which the OP is using in their serum), which help draw water into the skin.
Also, your suggestion that synthetics cause “a lot of skin problems” is an oversimplification. Some of the safest, most effective, and well-researched skincare ingredients are synthetic or semi-synthetic. In fact, synthetic ingredients are often less allergenic than natural ones.
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Could you share your definition of “moisturize and hydrate”?
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While I can’t say for certain as I’m not a professional, I do believe they are essentially the same but one is pre-neutralized. I have used sodium carbomer in gels and lotions and it functioned the same way. I think the difference is that there are many different grades or versions of carbomer, so with sodium carbomer you are limited to its specifications.
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@Perry44 They sell all purpose cleaner, soap, shampoo, conditioner, and more. But, it looks like all of their products are not listing a preservative.
Shampoo:
Aqua, Sodium c14-16 olefin sulfonate and Cocamide MIPA and Cocamidopropyl betaine, Sodium chloride, Propanediol and Hydroxyacetophenone, Rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf oil, Mentha arvensis (peppermint) leaf oil, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, Vegetable glycerin, Panthenol, Silk powder, Disodium laureth sulfosuccinate, Alcohol and Aqua and Sucrose cocoate, Decyl glucoside, Simmondsia chinensis (jojoba) seed oil, Tocopherol, Citric acid, Aloe barbadensis leaf.
Conditioner:
Aqua, Cetearyl alcohol, Behentrimonium methosulfate, Cetrimonium chloride, Cetyl alcohol, Stearyl alcohol, Glycol stearate, Propanediol and Hydroxyacetophenone, Vegetable glycerin, Hydrolized vegetable protein, Rosmarinus Officinalis (rosemary) leaf Oil, Mentha arvensis (peppermint) Leaf Oil, Panthenol, Silk Powder, Simmondsia chinensis (jojoba) seed oil, Vitamin E, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf, Camellia sinensis leaf extract, Helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil and Ascorbyl palmitate and BHT (green tea extract), Citric Acid.
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thank you for your input. i haven’t noticed a sticky or gummy feeling on my skin with ICE HR at 3%! maybe the dimethicone is helping to mitigate that feeling? i haven’t tried ICE Conditioner yet, but I’ll look into it. i do wonder if cocamidopropyl betaine could be irritating if left on the face.
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i’m allergic to natural 😷
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@chemicalmatt thank you for confirming about disodium edta! the only reason i want to avoid adding cetyl/stearyl alcohol individually is because the ICE Hair Restore (Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-37) is a cold process emulsifier, so I am making this lotion by adding all the ingredients to a beaker and then blending. it is very quick and requires no heat. i was thinking of adding hydroxyethylcellulose, but I’m not sure if it can handle the shear.
can i ask you, how much behentrimonium chloride do you think is too much in a leave-on application?
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@ketchito thanks for sharing! the benchmark is actually a green cream, it is not clear. 🤔
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thank you for the link!
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thank you that link is very helpful to me!
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hello Dr. Geis, thank you for replying. yes, it is SD-40B. also from the SDS:
“Product Name: SDA 40-B
Other means of identification: Specially Denatured Alcohol TTB Formula 40-B; SDA 40-B 200 Proof; SDS 40-B; 190 Proof Special Denatured Alcohol Grade 3 (SDAG-3)”
will it be suitable? thank you for your advice.
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thank you, i misunderstood the use of DPG, i thought it was a fixative in this case. could you recommend me a starting point for how much benzoyl benzoate or diethyl phthalate to add? is one preferred over the other?
also, about the BluntPower air freshener, this is what they say on their website:
Sadly, most ‘Big Brand’ air fresheners use mass-produced water and alcohol-based sprays that disappear FAST. Instead, we use a unique, oil-based formula that’s designed to hang around and fill any room. Just a few sprays will literally last for days. As an added bonus, you can also use BluntPower inside your oil burner.
what would go into an oil-based air freshener that doesn’t contain water or alcohol?
thank you so much for your time and help.