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ok. thanks

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Fekher said:

@esmail i suggest to add CDEA before Naoh why?  because it will be easier to find adequat amount of Naoh so you just make 20% solution of  soude and add  littel by littel then check ph to reach wanted one.

yes you right, thank you for this suggestion.

but

the high pH medium after adding NaOH doesnt ruin CDEA structure?

[esmail]

and does the pH affects foam?

[esmail]

thanks for your attention

Gunther said:

LABSA molecular weight varies a little bit from batch to batch, so it needs a slightly different NaOH amount to neutralize each time.

The last 5% or so of the NaOH solution should be added slowly, stepwise, checking pH every time.

yes that right. i make titration for each new purchased barrel(or made small test batch).

Gunther said:

Besides CDEA containing diethanolamine as @ozgirl pointed out,

is that basic nature of CDEA because of some diethanolamine in it? if yes, could we say the pH of CDEA sample is indication of % diethanolamine in that sample?

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@ozgirl thanks for your comment. knowing “The CDEA contains free diethanolamine”  is very useful point to me.

ozgirl said:

You could also just try reducing the NaOH rather than adding extra LABSA.

actually i do that. calculate appropriate amount of NaOH need to neutrlize completely my desired amount of LABSA then add slightly less than calculated NaOH.

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esmail said:

i found when whashing clothes with my shampoos or hand soaps they smells dead fish odor after air drying

i use 0.1% presevator (methyl and chloro methyl isothiazolin) in my products and products are all maded in this week, so whats the problem?

no one can please help me with that bad odor?

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@Mel55: the general ratio mentioned in literature and also by this site wise users is 4:1 to 3:1 in active for SLES:CAPB, but i see many commertial product that uses betaines as major surfactant in their formula.

for third surfactant you may want look at succiantes. grant good big boble foam to the product and mild to skin and have low eye sting(uses as the major sufactant in baby shampoos), but may affect salt thikening in higher % and may pH sensetive as i read about them(i use disodium laureth sulfosuccinate).

sorry for my bad english

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@Mary24: thank you for your attention but i have not access to these commertial matterials. and bad odor stay still even add no pearlizer to the shamoo.

[esmail]

i found when whashing clothes with my shampoos or hand soaps they smells dead fish odor after air drying

i use 0.1% presevator (methyl and chloro methyl isothiazolin) in my products and products are all maded in this week, so whats the problem?

[esmail]

@Mel55     i used pearlized SLES with few precent of glycol steatars (mentioned above) in low percents(0.5% active matter at maximum), its easy to use and had a good pearling effect on my products.

5% betaine as active matter or just 5% of purchased matrial?

when i use SLES+CAPB in ratios lower than 3:1 (active), it cause irratiation to my skin

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Belassi said:

I haven’t found a version of Texapon that has been pearled. I suspect that supplier has added their own pearl to a standard Texapon SLES (EG: N-5, N-5G, or N-70)
Quickpearl PSB3 (Lubrizol)
Another one is Hallstar EGAS.
I add pearl at the end of the mix.

yes they pearlizes SLES with ethylene glycol esteatates and sell it under that name.

thanks for your attention sir.

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@Belassi sir after you mention that i look up and found a matrial from a supplier called “pearlized texapon” (pearlized SLES 28% active).

now the question is when i should add it? at the end of process or mix it with other surfactant(SLES 70% active, CDEA and DLSSuccinate at early stage?

[esmail]

thanks for your replies

Belassi said:

Save yourself a lot of grief and just use one of the standard cold-pearl blends in the manufacturer’s percentage.

i just access to those in pure form in my region.

[esmail]

after adding CDEA pH goes up to about 9, i guess adding acid in early stages recommended for preventing this(high alkalinity after CDEA) to hapen. is higher pH may ruin any ingredient at all or i should’nt concern about that?

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ngarayeva001 said:

I totally agree with Perry as learned it myself via trial and error. CAPB goes in the end.

Start with SLES and sulfosuccinate, then mix Cocamide DEA with a little bit of water and heat it to 55-60C. It will make it clear and homogenous. Add cocamide DEA to SLES and sulfosuccinate. Add water and all other ingredients. Then Add CAPB in the very end and adjust the pH. Looking at the combination of surfactants that you have, I think you don’t need any salt.

thanks for your guid

should i add some citric acid (say 0.1%) at the early stages (after adding SLES may be)?

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LisaS said:

I would do some research into how pH can affect the anionic charge at the headgroup, since micelle packing relies on this, and greater packing allows for changes in shape to form a gel. 

in practice when using SLES+CAPB we found that lowering the pH to about 5 makes solution thicker, i think because acidic pH rising concentration of H+ and also turning amphotheric surfactant into its cationic mode (more positive charges in solution at all) decrease - charg density of anionic surfactant and let them to pack together more tightly.

please correct me if thas not true

[esmail]

thank you so much for your replies

“To consumers , thicker is better and thickest is the best” is absolutly right in my region too but i use low percent of materials (to lowering the cost) and i have to use salt for thickening.

i have read somewhere in a book or articles that succinates are pH sensetive and in the supplier’s data sheet the proper pH for using DLSuccinate is about 5 - 9, should i take care of this? because in some steps during process pH got very high or low, is this makes trubble for succinate?

thanks for your attention