

Duncan
Forum Replies Created
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Hallstar do butters that contain essential oils that are good for lip balms
If you want something very strongly flavoured you may need to approach the flavour houses
link for the lime butter version
https://www.hallstarbeauty.com/product/biochemica-lime-butter/ -
I did initial formulation of one product actually IN my kitchen including a video on how to make it for the subcontractor - Worst part was having to do the washing up before I started formulating
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Basic lab requirements
Hotplates
Beakers
Overhead paddle stirrer
Homogeniser
pH meter
Some method of measuring viscosity
Weighing scales / balance
DI water
lots of storage space and easy clean surfaces
Ovens / fridges if you want to do stability in there as well
Various spatula’s and pallette knivesthat’s about it
Basically a glorified kitchen with some measuring equipment
You don’t need the machine that goes “Ping”
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Not specifically prohibited, however, as you mention spores and higher than normal TVC compared to cosmetic materials can be an issue
Items like Honey, Royal Jelly, Yoghurt, Cocoa powder can be bug central, however, pasteurising in a batch can help
Some food grade materials can also be “Not great” when it comes to cosmetics
for instance citrus oils can be a photo irritation issue when applied direct to the skin, things like cinnamon applied direct to the lips can cause irritationThings like edible vegetable oils of course are fine
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Plus points: Natural, very strong colour
Minus points: Smells unpleasant, stains everything in sight. Only thing that will remove it is hypochlorite bleach(Had to help a squid processing plant with cleaning - bleach is the only thing that shifts it!)
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C25 is the go to material for clear ringing gels. If the product doesn’t have to be clear, or you intend to have a clay in there you could use waxes and butters instead.
If you want a clear waterbase gel that flows rather than bounces, many gelling agents such as Carbomers, polyacrylates or guars -
Evonik and BASF are the two manufacturers that come to mind - trade names Tegin Acid C or Cremaphor A25
Only downside with this material is that it needs high temperature to get it to dissolve and can clump up typically upto 95 deg C- not beyond the wit of man but can be a pain with a beaker on a hotplate. For small batches a microwave is a godsend
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Duncan
MemberJuly 5, 2018 at 6:15 pm in reply to: Crystallization of polymers during heat with flat ironOn silicones: Dimeticones OK, Cyclomethicones really not a good idea as they are volatile and quite flammable
Generate clouds of white silica dust when they burn(Don’t ask)
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Which Lamesoft are you referring to - there is more than one grade and they are all different
TM Benz for instance is a nice pearl concentrate
PO65 is the material that gives a 24 hour moisturising claim if you use enough -
I’ll wade in from a contract manufacturers point of view - I work for one in the UK
What Perry and Mark have said is pretty much on the money - it depends on what you want, and how you want to start your brand.
(And Mark I apologise for taking your name in vain, but I’m using you as the example of employing a custom formulator)We deal with a range of customers from start ups to branded.
If you’re OK using white label products with your label on it - that’s fine, you’ll find many people that will do that. We have some stock formulations and have done this many times
My company tends to favour custom formulation and manufacture, so that is what we do for most clients
However, if you have a formulation that somebody like Mark has done the work on, we’ll happily talk, however, we’ll want to make sure that we can make it in the lab first.
Just because Mark can make it with his water and his materials doesn’t guarantee that we can without slight tweaks. If possible we will want to use our grades of common materials, makes it easier for us if we use our equivalents. However, there can be variation - it’s not unexpectedTo get a good rapport with a private label manufacturer - or a formulator like Mark, you’ll need to have done some homework beforehand, so I’ll give a few hints that we find useful, and marks you as serious rather than somebody with a good, but partially formed idea
- think of it like preparing for a dateHave an idea of what you want - benchmarks already out there are good
Have an idea of the service you are looking for - are you looking for something with your label on, or do you want something with specific claims that will need some TLC from a formulation expert.
Formulation ownership - as above
Lead times: Be realistic. White label products can be turned reasonably swiftly as it’s just artwork and manufacturing.
Custom stuff will need at least 3 months stability testing from the point of approval of the prototype.
Thats if everything goes right and passes first time. If it doesn’t there will be delays When you factor in lead times of packaging etc, and getting production scheduled, realistically you’re looking at 5-6 months before your product is in your storage facility
Have a realistic idea of how many units you will want to order. We will go as low as 6000 units, a lot of manufacturers won’t look at anything less than 10.
Have a realistic idea of what you will need to pay per unit
For instance as a rough guide - if you see a product in a store for £12, the store will be making 100% markup minimum. Means they will buy from you for £6, and you need to be paying the manufacturer maximum £3
If you want a fancy bottle hand crafted by artisans that costs a fiver, well that isn’t going to workIn the end you need to have a successful partnership with the formulator and manufacturer, and a lot of times it comes down to communication
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Could just use a solution of 10% sodium hydroxide. As a rule of thumb 10% sodium hydroxide has the same pH adjusting ability as TEA.
If your Naoh solution is stronger / weaker just pro-rata it
It’s also a hell of a sight cheaperOnly reason I’d choose TEA (or AMP) is if I was making a hydroalcoholic carbomer gel. Sodium hydroxide tends to haze out in those, TEA or AMP being organic are more compatible with the alcohol
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2.5% limit for leave on products in the EU, not sure if that applies to total addition or free amine content.
5% TEA ? that’s a hell of a lot. Any particular reason for that?
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Duncan
MemberJune 19, 2018 at 12:59 pm in reply to: Why hair dye packs don’t include an acid ammonia neutralizer?They usually contain a conditioner for application post rinse. (Ones I’ve applied anyway. These are typically acidic and will neutralise any ammonia residues
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Duncan
MemberJune 19, 2018 at 12:56 pm in reply to: Do big-name formulators dissolve parabens in water, since they don’t list any propylene glycol?If you’re doing hot mixes Methyl and Propyl parabens go in no bother. Can also use a side pan with hot water to pre-dissolve then tip into a cold mix - or if you can’t use propylene glycol, Glycerin makes a good substitute
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Duncan
MemberJune 15, 2018 at 9:19 am in reply to: Do people sue very small skincare businesses for skin damage?Insurance means that if you get somebody litigating, even unjustifiably, it’ll pay to waste a lawyers time not yours
ends up being very cheap then
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Duncan
MemberJune 15, 2018 at 9:16 am in reply to: Apparatus to measure the viscosity of toothpaste3 basic tools for testing in any lab
Viscosity - need a brookfield or equivalent, or if you are making low viscosity products you can use a Ford cup (What they use in spray paint shops - advantage is that you can get it from a tool store, and they are cheap - disadvantage will be that they struggle over 2-3000cpspH meter - get those cheap enough off amazon
Something to measure SG. Pyconometer (basically a calibrated pot and lid is cheap and flexible- you’ll need to use it with a balance, but you should have one of those already
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From past experience the choice of acid will depend upon the taste
Citric acid - perfectly good, can get a bit Sour and Tart at high levels
Phosphoric - not personally used that one for mouthwash, but you’ll find it in products such as Coke or Pepsi
Lactic: perfectly edible, but will probably taste like sour milk - which for oral care is not going to find favour with the end user -
Duncan
MemberMay 23, 2018 at 7:31 am in reply to: Hand Sanitizer Gel not forming gel with hydroxypropyl guarNoticed that you are using Esaflor - homogenise that into the water phase, add the alcohol slowly with stirring.
I’ve not had to add citric / alkali to get it to gel
It isn’t 100% crystal clear in the applications I’ve used it in -
Duncan
MemberMay 23, 2018 at 7:27 am in reply to: Hand Sanitizer Gel not forming gel with hydroxypropyl guarCheck the grade of Guar you are using. Some are optimised for alcohol use, some are better for using in things like shampoos and conditioners.
I’m more familiar with Jaguar grades from Rhodia, however, there will be local equivalents out there -
If you want cups pre-made try looking at places that sell automotive refinishing products - they’re used for checking paint viscosity before spraying, or google “Ford cups”
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Sodium Carbonate, or sodium metasilicate to raisse the pH and cut through grease. If you are cleaning really greasy surfaces sodium hydroxide works well, but is aggressive to surfaces and in skin contact. Metasilicate is aluminium safe
EDTA is commonly added over and above what you’ve used as it’s good for breaking up earth type soils. I’d use significantly more than what you have
Is this ready to use, or dilution to use? -
Found that Sodium Benzoate for Facial products can be rather stingy / cause redness, so best avoided
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Duncan
MemberApril 10, 2018 at 7:41 am in reply to: A product with 2% Hydroquinone keeps getting a high HQ reading using the HPLC method.The question is is there anything in the base that is either coming through at the same time as the HQ, or something in the background that is giving a high absorbance on the UV detector.
Obvious question have you tried HPLC of base with no HQ in there to see what you get? If that’s giving a peak where you’d expect HQ to be that may be the answer, and you’ll need to revalidate the method to get around that -
Jacket heating is quicker, and more even, you’re less likely to get burnt spots.
You can (and I have) used a 20 litre cooking pot on a hotplate to make a batch. You’ll need an overhead stirrer going quickly to ensure circulation.
If you’re looking for big stuff - try local auctions for surplus equipment from the food prep industry you can get some surprising bargains