Doreen
Forum Replies Created
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Another thread exhumed (2014)
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@johnb
It is ethanol extracted… I have used the oat oil pure aswell, on my face. No problems…As I mentioned earlier, I don’t get this flushing response every time that I use it. I now have come to the conclusion that it obviously only happens when the skin is more or less (visible or not) irritated already. When I used Grahams, I had a contact allergy because of the apple cider vinegar dilution, which I rinsed my hair with. My hair is very long, so I had to stand in a position where it was difficult to keep it from my face completely. The spots where it had been in contact with were red, itchy, swollen and eventually a slight lichenification. Grahams eczema cream gave flushing then, which wasn’t surprising.
Now with my own cream, the first time I used it and had flushing, my skin had a thorough ‘night-out make up’ cleanse. Mild cleanser though, but still. Skin looked calm, but maybe there was invisible irritation?
Days after that, no problems. No flushing. -
@MarkBroussard
Yes there is, in Grahams cream too… -
@johnb
You’re right, I’ll first give the formula that I made:Water phase
q.s. Deionized water
0.5% Allantoin
1.0% Glycerin
2.0% Sodium Lactate 60%
0.2% Disodium EDTAOil phase
8.0% Glyceryl Stearate + PEG100 Stearate (±70/30) (E-wax)
3.0% Cetyl alcohol
2.0% Shea butter
1.0% Petrolatum
3.0% Sunflower seed oil
0.2% Xanthan gumCooling down
3.0% D-panthenol
2.0% Cyclopentasiloxane
0.5% α-tocopherol
0.3% α-bisabolol (natural)
4.0% Avena Sativa kernel oil
2.5% Oatmeal
q.s. Citric acid 40% solution (-> pH 4.8-5.0)
0.3% Potassium Sorbate
0.5% Benzyl Alcohol + DHA (± 90/10)All utensils and stickblender disinfected with 70% alcohol. Wearing latex gloves, disinfected.
Put water (incl. large excess) at >80° C for about 20 minutes. Take needed water from this beaker, 2% for dissolving K sorbate, 3% for dissolving D-panthenol. Rest of total water (- 5% ) for water phase.1. Dissolving allantoin, glycerin, sodium lactate, disodium EDTA in ‘rest of total water’. -> 70° C
2. Disperse xanthan gum in sunflower seed oil.
3. Oil phase ingredients + xanthan/oil mixture. -> 70° C.
Water phase in oil phase.
Stick blender at low speed.
4. When 45° C add D-panthenol solution, cyclo D5, tocopherol, bisabolol, oat oail, BA+DHA.
5. Citric acid -> pH 4.8 - 5.0
6. Add K sorbate solution.
7. Disperse sifted oatmeal with bits of emulsion in a mortar in equal quantities.
Homogeneous? -> disinfected airless dispenser.The emulsion before adding the cool down ingredients was already a nice, creamy consistency (way different than the bodymilk-thin one I mentioned earlier when I added too much oat oil in the cool down phase.)
I added panthenol at cooling down because I want to prevent too much racemization.The result: a nice cream with the right consistency and an off white, creamy colour. Thickening occured already when mixing at low speed. Within the last days it has thickened only a bit further. Spreads fantastic. Great soft and smooth skin feel, not sticky.
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cadmium sulphide :#
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@MarkBroussard , @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
Yesterday I put a few drops of pure bisabolol on my inner arm (underneath the wrist). I put the drops under occlusion of a transparant adhesive wound film.
I let it sit for quite a while. No reaction. Now, a day later, still no reaction, no redness, no irritation, nothing.Can I rule out an allergy?
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@lotionmaker
Really no need for an excuse! It’s ok to piggyback on someone elses post sometimes, but if you need answers on your own exact situation, it’s not always handy. I think you will get a lot more answers if you start your own thread, that was the whole idea behind my advice.p.s. I use oat aswell, I love it. That’s why I need a strong preservative blend, especially on moulds/yeast was my opinion aswell. Really no need to get rid of the oat from your formula, I was afraid of that too (too sensitive for contamination). But Mark, DrBob and others helped me with this, I’m so thankful! Just find a preservative blend that’s right for about 2% in your formula. People here sure are willing to help you find the right one. You’re lucky to already have colloidal oat, can’t get it here. But thanks to Belassi, I will try to make my own colloidal.
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The blend of preservatives that was suggested by Mark is strong on moulds. The reason why he suggested this, was because I gave the preservatives I’m having at home right now, there are lots of others to choose from. And like johnb pointed out, there is no ‘one size fits all’. This was merely to help me out, in my situation. That’s why I advice you to start your own discussion on here, I’m not an expert and there are so many other preservatives than the ones I have at home.
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@lotionmaker
I would advice you to start a New Discussion where you explain your own exact problem as detailed as possible. That way you give people the chance to think along with you and together you can find out what the problem has been in your specific situation. Preservating can be tough, good luck! -
Silkcat hi in this forum no one explain you start up ur cosmetic line . But don’t worry I m here to explain u everything.
Excuse me? Read @johnb ‘s message ^ You can’t just ask a random question and expect peope on here to do thorough searching work you could’ve done yourself! If you want to know more about xanthan gum for example, Google is your friend. If you need a specific answer on something, you have to give more and detailed information on what you mean, what kind of formula that you’re working on for example.
I’m sorry, but I find your remark rather offensive. This forum has a lot of willing and helpful experts who are giving up whole parts of their free time just to answer our questions. You should be grateful. -
@lotionmaker
Did you sterilize/disinfect equipment, erlenmeyers, spoons, what kind of water did you use (distilled, purified), did you add a chelating agent, ingredients like clay, what kind and % of surfactants, keep it in the fridge or in a damp hot bathroom, with other words:You need to give a lot more information if you want people to help you on here.
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@Microformulation
I know, I’ve used vanilla extracts before, no problems.@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ @MarkBroussard
I’m not allergic to chamomile, or other Compositae which makes it strange. The flushing disappears within half an hour and doesn’t itch, leave any redness or other irritation. It’s just an overall warm glow with redness. It doesn’t happen every time that I apply it, a few days/applications later, my face seems to get used to it? Paradoxically, Grahams has helped my skin during a contact dermatitis with apple cider vinegar. I have very long hair and have rinsed it once with an acv dilution. Accidently some of it got on my skin, I rinsed it immediately, but after about half a day, I obviously got a contact dermatitis. Apart from the flushing (which was very different than the itchy dermatitis symptoms and starts within minutes after application), the cream seemed to help my skin recover.
The flushing couldn’t be due to that dermatitis (only), because I have this same sensation when my skin is healthy too, like right now.I’ll make another batch and leave out the bisabolol, see what happens then.
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causing relaxation of isolated blood vessels from pigs, but no dilation.
Pfff, I’m slow today…
narrowing of blood vessels -> vasoconstriction
relaxation of blood vessels -> vasodilation@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ ,
I just read something you wrote about SLS irritation in bodywash. What do you think of my ‘irritation’, the slight flushing alone, dilated blood vessels, a warm and red skin, the whole skin, not a few spots, not at all unpleasant and not similar to allergic reactions I’ve had in the past. Would this flushing be harmful to my skin anyway? 0.3% bisabolol should be anti-inflammatory, not inducing it. Which has me confused by the above mentioned research on bisabolol on isolated porcine blood vessels.
I would like to hear your opinion! -
@pradeep
This is a very old discussion. The fact that it’s not active anymore should be an indication that the problem has probably been solved in the mean time. -
That depends. You should give more information on what you are making or intend to make.
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@pradeep
Lots of chemicals have inhaling hazards, even cellulose or niacinamide. Take adequate safety measures all the time (ventilation etc). If you handle powders a lot, you can think of using simple dust-masks.For this lotion I have chosen a combination of TiO2 and ZnO, both are broad spectrum.
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You are totally right! About 2 days later, the emulsion had thickened considerably! From bodymilk-thin to a nice creamy texture, I just left it to see what would happen and did not add xanthan gum. It just needed more time to thicken.
I will change the formula though, apart from the thickening there still are other stability issues. -
@Perry
I understand your curiosity, I’m not easily convinced myself either.I’m not exactly doing a double-blind placebo/non placebo group test here at home, but I hear positive sounds from family members aswell.
My skin feels better since I’ve become a homecrafter and use anti irritants mainly. No more rosacea outbreaks.My biggest ‘victory’ was getting my husband to use my concoctions (not because they’re homemade, just because he thought skincare for men is gay and girly). He had the infamous irritable skin after shaving and also had this stupid tendency of patting some alcohol based macho after shave on the whole face (cheeks, chin, neck). :#
Either he could stop complaining about the irritable skin, or try my moisturizer, which I simply labeled ‘after shave cream’ on the package.
His skin has drastically improved since then, but…. I think it’s just a combination of not using alcohol on the face anymore and the moisturizer.So, you’ve got me doubting again. I’ll now start formulating a placebo. :p
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@jeremien,
Soothing anti irritant favorite actives of mine are oat, licorice, allantoin, α-bisabolol. These are, next to niacinamide, my main actives. I don’t care much for supposed anti-wrinkle ingredients (maybe also because I don’t have any). I focus mainly on anti irritants. They’ve always done the trick for me. -
@zwapp,
Thanks for your extensive answer.
I agree
on the pH testing, I prefer meters aswell. Point is, I’m only making stuff for
myself, so I’m not ready (yet) to invest in the highly accurate professional
precision equipment, like what I’m working with professionally.Because of that, I keep using strips next to the meter to have a kind of double check.
Also my scale will not be as accurate as the ones I work with, but it does the
job for my own concoctions.I can weigh a minimum of 10 milligrams on my scale, the accuracy is good enough
for my homemade stuff. This type is used for weighing gold/diamonds etc. It also
has a calibration function.Thanks for your compliment, I also do indeed believe in rigorous science only.
And I sure am very eager to learn.It’s interesting to read the mechanism behind the niacin flushing. Inflammatory
reactions are indeed not harmful per se to an extent. It’s a natural and
helpful reaction of the body, which is the main reason I don’t easily take for
example NSAID’s for this purpose. Personally, I also like the feel of blushing
flushing. Not necessarily because of the increase of O2 to tissue, but it’s
just an overall nice warm feeling. Maybe I’ll change my opinion when I once
will be menopausal.I do like to add anti-inflammatory and
soothing ingredients because of the benefits for eczema and rosacea.Personally, I don’t care much for all the supposed anti-aging, anti-wrinkle
stuff. Maybe because I don’t have wrinkles at all, though I’m almost 40. And apart from tretinoin, I don’t believe
the supposed effects of all those ingredients.My 3 sisters (I prepare stuff for them aswell) do have wrinkles more or less,
but unlike them, I never sunbathe or smoke and I kind of have a strict skincare
regimen just because the skin is an important organ and I like to care for all
of my organs. Sadly I can’t convince them to give their whole skincare routine
a thorough look, as the cleaning part is essential aswell. So is perseverance.
Only apply a moisturizer once a week or something won’t do much either.But back to the niacin topic. I was wondering if niacin had any other bad
effects on the skin. I can’t find much about niacin on the skin. Do you mind
telling me for what reason exactly you put it in the scalp treatment?About your spreadsheet, I do it the same way. Like what I’m used to professionally.
Indeed, a space where you can place notes. If something went wrong for example,
it’s good to know the exact amount you’ve used since there always is a
slight deviation within the perimeters you work with. -
@johnb
When I typed it, I had just read an article on a news site about the growing intolerance towards homosexuals in this country.Is it me, or does it seem chemophobics in general aren’t exactly the brightest people? How can the mentioned article be any more clear. I really had to give an extensive explanation on how it was meant and I’m not even that smart.
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@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ @Belassi
I found out that one of the intermediate suppliers here gets a lot of her stuff from Brambleberry. They have hydrolized oats in their assortment. I will ask her if she can get it in hers. It’s unbelievable she hasn’t yet, as being the ‘most complete soapstore of Europe’. This company is located a few miles away from where I live.Belassi, thanks, I’ll give the diy collodial and alkaline hydrolysis a try as soon as I’ve purchased NaOH, I need it for other purposes aswell.
At what pH do you stop adding the NaOH solution and neutralize it? Could I neutralize it with citric acid? -
@Bill_Toge
lol
I placed the link and the all natural strawberry picture with the ‘awful ingredients’ underneath on my facebook profile. It clearly stated: ALL NATURAL STRAWBERRY
It’s hard to believe but one of the homophobics (I have about 3 quite paranoid ones in my family who rather get polio than a vaccine): do they add all this to natural strawberries??????? 😮
And another (this one is the best by far): are these the natural ingredients in strawberries the government just won’t tell us honestly????
After that it went from ‘Big Pharma’ to chemtrails and for the sake of my blood pressure I think of deleting it. :# -
@johnb , @MarkBroussard
So I really don’t need to worry about it being extra sensitive for microbial growth? The combination in the concentration you mentioned earlier, with DHA, phenoxy or BA and K sorbate, good enough if I add 2.5% oatmeal? (Grahams eczemacream has 2.5% colloidal oatmeal:Collodial Oatmeal, Water (Aqua), Theobroma Oil (Cocoa Butter), Olea Europaea Fruit Oil (Olive Oil), Butyrospermum Parkii Seed Oil (Shea Butter), Simmondsia Chinensis Seed Oil ( Jojoba Oil), D-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Vanilla Planifolia Extract, Allantoin, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate, Cetyl Alcohol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Cetearyl Glucoside, Cetostearyl Alcohol, Bisabolol, Sclerotium Gum.
The LOI just can’t be in the right order, I copied it from their site. It’s a different order than on the package I once bought. Afraid of online emulators much? That’s the only reason I can think of.
I read a few articles on avenanthramides as being the components with the most benefits. If I am not mistaken, the avenanthramides are (partially?) lipophilic, I had hoped the oat kernel oil, which is pricey, but available, would be comparable to the extract.@Bobzchemist
I can’t get Pemulens here. I also had to google it, I read these are ‘predominantly high molecular weight poly acrylic acid polymers’. Comparible to carbomer then? The reason I don’t have carbomer ‘in stock’ is because of its instability in acidic environments, which I tend to a lot with most of my stuff (pH <5).Colloidal oat same story (inavailability), I’ll have to use oatmeal. I can imagine the colloidal being easier to suspend, but I don’t have suspending issues with oatmeal, I only notice the difference in colour in the end product.
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@MarkBroussard
I would love to use oatmeal, but I was afraid it’s too sensitive for microbial contamination. And I thought, since it’s mostly inert material, you would need a lot. And in large quantities I expect the cream to be doug-like.
I’d like to hear your expert opinion on this!A list with available emulsifiers will follow, I’m off to work now.