Doreen
Forum Replies Created
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@halrac
It’s ok to go below pH4 with Microcare SB (sodium benzoate, potassium sorbate), actually it’s even better. These are the sodium and potassium salts of benzoic and sorbic acid and they need an acidic environment to convert to their acid form. At pH>5 they are no longer active. pH 3.5 is great.
They are unsaturated fatty acids, so you’ll need an anti-oxidant like BHT.
It also isn’t broad spectrum, you’ll need something against bacteria too.FYI there have been worries about benzene forming when combining sodium benzoate/benzoic acid with ascorbic acid, but it’s ok to use these together. Concentrations are low enough not having to worry about it, benzene forming also happens naturally. (Cranberries for example contain both benzoic acid and vitamin C).
Just like formaldehyde releasers, concentrations in cosmetics are very low (comparable to formaldehyde levels found naturally in vegetables and fruits e.g. pears and grapes). -
What did you find horrifying about it?
My thoughts exactly? @SheilaInBoston
Does the toxicology report scare you? Every substance has its toxic level, even (clean) water. If you read the report thorougly you will see that phenoxyethanol is safe to use in usual concentrations.I would take @Microformulation ‘s advice and only read credible references.
If you want more (unbiased) information on an ingredient, you can check it here for example.
Regarding this topic I would stay away from mommy blogs, EWG and other unsupported scaremongering sites and leave it to people who know what they’re talking about.
Like @Perry mentions above, if phenoxyethanol for example would be carcinogenic or mutagenic, it would have been prohibited a long time ago. -
Omg… Is this even serious?
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Did not use anything metallic? What do you mean by that?
I agree with Mark, you need something like sodium lactate, it’ll keep the ferulic solubilized. What is your final pH btw? Sodium lactate is a buffer and raises the pH. Lotioncrafter also has a vitamin C/ferulic formula (they sell DIY vitamin C serum packages, very similar to Skinceuticals C/E Ferulic). They suggest triethanolamine without even heating the ferulic solution.
A tip: I have a formula with ferulic acid (no vitamin C though), it also has 5% niacinamide and it doesn’t even need sodium lactate: the high % of niacinamide keeps the ferulic solubilized. I got this tip from @johnb. The final pH of that serum is 4.7-4.9.About the Geogard 221 solubilization troubles: I only use it as a booster at 0,15-0,2% (mostly because of the awful smell and that’s easy to mask with a fragrance at that %).
What kind of microbiological test do you do to test the efficacy of your preservative system? Do you do challenge tests? -
@Belassi
Doreen it isn’t even hydrolysed! This is just powdered algae we are talking about.I know, but the disgust reminded me of the proteins.
Weren’t you planning to hydrolyze several proteins? I’m very curious if there are differences in scent! -
@Microformulation
you should see it as raising the bar and requiring the crafters to manufacture in a safe and credible manner.Totally agree with this. Is it really true that homecrafters could sell their home made concoctions on Amazon and Etsy without being GMP certified?
Why am I even surprised. I see a lot of crafters having their own company and they don’t even half know what they’re actually selling or making. I see it a lot in some Facebook discussions. I was astonished to see the utter lack in basic chemical knowledge and yet they had their own ‘brand’ and they were ‘CEO’ of some skincare company.
I thought regulations were very strict on cosmetic skincare, no matter the platform you’re selling from?
I’m a homecrafter myself, but I find it appalling to see that a large group just seems to think you just need a kitchen, some ingredients and not even the slightest bit of knowledge and caution and hope to see the money come pouring in. -
@em88
Nope, Ebay or Amazon: can’t find sellers that ship to this country.@Perry
Thanks for the link! I’m willing to try that, has anyone on here tried this DIY project?
It would be less hassle though if there were a brand like Mophorn, but so far I can’t find anything…
Edit: The items necessary for this project aren’t shipped to this country either. Frustrating! -
Lol! Thanks for the warning!
Am I the only one who thinks (hydrolyzed) proteins stink to high heaven?
I had bought hydrolyzed wheat protein but it smells like vomit! -
@em88
It’s a blend of humectants for hydration (N.M.F.).@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
It’s the max of the recommended dose (1-5%). Would you suggest a lower % for hydration?
I don’t know the electrolyte sensitivity of the different carbomers and Evonik never uses more than 2% Lactil in their formula suggestions.(I forgot to mention that betaine is very hygroscopic, I store it with silica bags)
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@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
You mean it’s even ok with 5% Lactil®? (Sodium Lactate; Sodium PCA; Glycine; Fructose; Urea; Niacinamide; Inositol; Sodium Benzoate; Lactic Acid)
I don’t know exactly how much elektrolytes it can deal with, but it would be awesome if it can handle the chelator + the Lactil! -
I love the effect of hydrolized proteins, the only thing I hate is the smell. Are there proteins that are smellier than others? I bought hydrolized wheat protein recently and it smells sour. I would like to try oat protein, but I’m afraid it might be too smelly.
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@Bill_Toge
You’re totally right, silly me! I think I got confused because of this sentence “Phenoxyethanol has the advantage that it is slightly volatile so it will protect the “head space” or vacant air space above the product in the bottle.” on the site of Making Skincare. -
@Bill_Toge
So it doesn’t have to be added to the cooling phase due to its volatility?
Both blends I mentioned can be added to the water phase as well, I reckon?
Glad to read that whole packaging thing is an unsupported urban myth. You’re right, I never see links to researches when they state those interactions.Thanks everyone!
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The numbers don’t add up to 100%. Are there other ingredients?
I totally agree with @Bobzchemist . Why would you want to disrupt the stratum corneum? To enhance absorption? I would strongly advise against it.
And why do you expect a polysorbate to disrupt the stratum corneum by the way? -
Correction,
this is the right electrode:
https://hannainst.com/hi10530.html -
@manuksh
The smell of BA + DHA is terrible (it’s the DHA, ’cause BA alone smells lovely), how do you mask it in higher %? I only use it as a booster at 0,2% sometimes. -
@Microformulation
Thanks for the tips/suggestions!
I had already been browsing on IKA’s website, at work we have an Ultra Turrax which is awesome, but indeed, quite out of my (budget’s) league right now. I have already given a hint, if there are intentions to sell it (which wouldn’t be surprising as the non sterile productions are getting less) that I’m quite interested in buying it plus its attachments (maybe with reduction even). -
@Microformulation
You’re right. I should invest in better mixer(s), it’s time consuming to do all high shear by hand with a stick blender. Which one would you recommend for home use? -
@roserose
What is your final pH + whole formula? -
@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
Won’t the pH after neutralization be too high for L-ascorbic acid to be effective? Most carbomers need pH >6, right? Or is LAA not pH dependant? -
@manuksh
I have just received the Dermosoft®1388 with sodium anisate and sodium levulinate today. I pair it up with caprylyl glycol and glyceryl caprylate.
Problem with the latter 2 is they decrease the viscosity, I’m now experimenting with these to see how far I can go.Personally, I’m not opposed to any preservative, whether it’s a paraben or a formaldehyde releaser. It’s just not always easy to get here.
(people sometimes seem to forget there is more formaldehyde in their fruit or veggies (yes, also the ecological/organic ones) than there is in a daycream or a vaccine)
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@Microformulation
The stirrer is only for dissolving ingredients (for high shear forces I use a stick blender, low shear a planetary mixer or hand mixer with beater attachment).@DAS , @Bobzchemist , @em88
Thank you for the suggestions!! -
It’s not an ingredient, it’s a tradename. Like La Roche Posay ‘Toleriane’ and ‘Effaclar’ etc. etc.
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@ozgirl
Coincidentally I have received this information about betaine very recently, I’ll order it from a supplier in the UK.
http://www.theformulary.co.uk/betaine-839-p.aspOn their site they state: “We have no empirical data on using betaine as a solubilising agent for salicylic acid but will carry out tests and publish our findings here.”
Looking forward to experiment with it and find out what % are needed for both allantoin and salicylic acid.
If I know more, I’ll let it know here on CC.