[Doreen]

@Chemist_Ahmed
No problem, you’re welcome! :+1:

[Doreen]

Petrolatum is vaseline.

[Doreen]

@nguyentiendungibt
No problem! :+1:

[Doreen]

@Bill_Toge @Microformulation
Thanks for your help, I just made the cream this afternoon and it turned out great (for now that is). This is how I made it:

A )
Distilled+deionized water ad 100
2%      Glycerin
0.35% Allantoin
0.3%   Caprylyl Glycol
5%      Alum (KAlSO4)

B )
4%      GMS + PEG 100 Stearate (Tego Care 165)
2%      Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate (Dermofeel PS)
2%      Cetearyl Alcohol
2%      Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil
6%      Isoamyl Laurate
7%      Jojoba Oil
0.2%   Tocopherol

B1 )   
0.9%   Sepimax Zen (Polyacrylate Crosspolymer-6)

C )
1%      Cyclopentasiloxane
0.5%   Phenonip

The final pH was 3.2 without adjusting (turned out less acidic then I expected).
I left out the panthenol to avoid acid hydrolysis.
I put the Phenonip in the cool down instead of the water- and oilphase (because of the phenoxyethanol-emulsion stability we discussed in the other thread).
Next time I make it I’ll raise the cetearyl alcohol just slightly I think, for the rest viscosity/consistency is fine. Now I hope it remains stable for quite a while.
Until I can get my hands on a stable salt like aluminum chlorohydrate, alum works just fine for me!

[Doreen]

@Bill_Toge
Re: phenoxyethanol. I was just reading the data sheet of Tego Care PBS 6 of Evonik Industries. This is what they suggest:

“Perfume, temperature-sensitive substances or
electrolyte-containing ingredients are preferably
added at 35 - 40 °C. Phenoxyethanol-containing
preservatives should be incorporated at this
temperature, as well. Since phenoxyethanol is an
amphiphilic molecule it can interfere with the
emulsification process when added directly to the oil
or water phase.”

I would like to know your expert opinion (and/or from others) on this!

[Doreen]

@Belassi
I know, I still have some left and it’s for own use, I don’t sell it.
Lexfeel D5 isn’t a silicone btw, it’s a replacement.

[Doreen]

Btw: I used to make the deodorant cream by adding 5% alum to a standard lanette I cream:
- purified water;
- decyl oleate;
- Lanette SX by BASF (cetearyl alcohol, sodium lauryl sulfate and sodium cetearyl sulfate);
- sorbitol 70%;
- sorbic acid.

This is what I had in mind for future preparations (I’m not particularly fond of lanette cream):

A )
Distilled+deionized water ad 100
Allantoin 0.35%
Glycerin 2%
Panthenol 1% skip panthenol to avoid hydrolysis?
Caprylyl Glycol 0.3%
Alum (KAlSO4) 5%
(Should I add NaOH here to raise the pH to 3 before I add the Phenonip?)
Phenonip 0.25%

B )
Glyceryl Stearate Citrate 2%    -> or GMS +PEG100 Stearate 4.5%
Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate 2%      —-^
Cetearyl Alcohol 2%
Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil 2%
Tocopherol 0.2%
Isoamyl Laurate 6%
Jojoba Oil 7%
Phenonip 0.25%

B1 )
Sepimax Zen 0.85% (Polyacrylate Crosspolymer-6)

C )
Cyclopentasiloxane/Lexfeel D5 1%
NaOH 18% q.s. -> pH 3.5-4.0??? -> stability alum, pH too high?

[Doreen]

Should I continue use the leaking bottle for perfume?

If you want customers to have a leaky mess, well yes, continue using it.
If not, use other bottles.

[Doreen]

@Bill_Toge
You’re right, thanks for reminding me of our paranormal powers! :joy:

[Doreen]

http://www.lipbalmanonymous.com/

[Doreen]

You have only listed a few ingredients you aren’t using.
How can we help if we have to guess the ingredients you do use?

[Doreen]

@DAS
There’s also glycerin from vegetable source.

I can’t think of non-vegan preservatives either?

[Doreen]

What’s wrong with reapplying the lipbalm every few hours or so?
I’m not sure but I don’t think there’s a huge market for some sticky lipbalm that lasts for a whole day and night. I surely wouldn’t buy it and I’m a huge lipbalm/-stick user.

[Doreen]

You already have posted this with another title.
There are answers in the other thread.

[Doreen]

There is a GREAT deal to learn before even attempting this. 

This ^

I see it all the time and it amazes me.
People with zero experience and chemical background just drop an (oftentimes complex) LOI and think they only need to collect all the listed ingredients and things will just work out from there.

You really, REALLY need to take @Microformulation ‘s advice seriously.

Why not start with creating a simple lipbalm with some waxes, butters and oils to begin with? You can add lipsafe micas.
https://snapguide.com/guides/make-a-coloured-lip-balm/

[Doreen]

@Microformulation
Thanks!!

[Doreen]

@gld010
I’m curious about the LOI. :blush:  You can always try to find out here what the culprit is.
I found out here on CC that sorbates can cause vasodilation in some people. % above 0,15% make me blush. Thanks to @MarkBroussard I know this now.

[Doreen]

You’re welcome!

[Doreen]

@Bill_Toge
Exactly. I see I forgot to mention that the supplier disagreed on me calling it slightly volatile. He recommended to put it in the cooling down phase because he’s somehow convinced the volatility is way higher.
I’ll forward this paper to him.
Glad to see I can keep adding it to the heated water phase.
Thanks for your help, Bill!

[Doreen]

@Bill_Toge
About the supposed volatility of phenoxyethanol.
My supplier of phenoxyethanol keeps on saying that it is volatile, that I shouldn’t look at the boiling point, but the vapor pressure.
He also says that if it wasn’t volatile, I wouldn’t be able to smell its slight flowery scent.
But if I look up the vapor pressure and compare it to a volatile like petroleum ether and a non volatile, like say glycerin, its vapor pressure is indeed more comparable to that of a non volatile.
At the Making Skincare site of Jane Barber they also speak of the volatility of phenoxyethanol, that it “will protect the vacant air space above the product in the bottle”.
I’m confused at which phase to add it. I usually add up to 0,5% to the heated water phase (>70C).

Would you help me with this? Thanks!

[Doreen]

@Belassi
Didn’t you use willow bark extract? 

[Doreen]

NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology Information)

[Doreen]

Raw ingredients on AliExpress? I can hardly find anything. It looks like only Kojic acid is sold. :joy:

[Doreen]

You’re welcome! :+1:

[Doreen]

@Belassi
Ok, thanks! :+1:

@natureAl
Good luck!