[Doreen]

@em88
BHA has a lower melting point (48-55C), so I guess I can heat BHT (70C) up to 60C or so?
I only have isopropyl alcohol, but I see it’s (partly) soluble in IPA as well as ethanol (Making Cosmetics).

[Doreen]

“…. I am getting a white, powdery residue upon application. Mainly when the product happens to end up on my eyebrows, but also if I put “too much” of the product on my face”

I’ve had exactly the same problem too with one of my creams, especially if the layer of cream is too thick, or if I apply a second layer after the first one has absorbed. When you rub your face gently (later on), it’s all powder.

Edit: I see Gunther’s advice. I think I also have too many solid powders in my formula.
The cream that I’m referring too has a high oil content, so it’s slower drying. The only difference that makes is that I don’t have powder upon application, but later on (for example if I use it has night cream, I wake up with powder).

[Doreen]

@em88
Thank you! In what phase would you recommend to put it?

[Doreen]

I looked up my notes, I see that I’ve also used sodium lactate to keep ferulic acid solubilized (about 3%).
Lotioncrafter uses triethanolamine in a formula, so I’m beginning to think alkaline substances will help it solubilize.
(As an aside, I’ve read in a technical fact sheet that a 10% NaOH solution can dissolve 39% allantoin!)

[Doreen]

If you want to make a clear and easy serum without oxidation troubles:

https://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=163613/CSI-Vitamin-C-+-12-Youth-Serum/Unlisted-Brand/Treatments

All it contains is 88% butylene glycol and 12% L-ascorbic acid (I presume ultra fine particle size). 

[Doreen]

You mean that the ferulic acid precipitates? It has been a while since I’ve used ferulic acid, but I still have some left, I might as well experiment with it again. Thanks to a tip @johnb gave me, I found out that a certain dose of niacinamide keeps ferulic acid solubilized. I’ve never had precipitation problems anymore since I’ve incorporated a few % of niacinamide. I don’t know what the pH of your serum is, I’m guessing rather low, the disadvantage of niacinamide at low pH is acidic hydrolysis to niacin, which is a potential irritant.

About the tocopherol. Usually the concentration of tocopherol is low, so the colour doesn’t pose a problem. I’ve used up till 1% (when I wasn’t aware of the pro-oxidation potential of alpha-tocopherol) in a vitamin C serum, but it remained colourless.

[Doreen]

@Belassi
:joy:
I love reading your comments early in the morning. Next time I won’t drink tea at the same time. :joy:

[Doreen]

I’m guessing this LOI isn’t complete, also ‘99.9% pure grade L-ascorbic acid’ isn’t a proper INCI name.
You’ll need a solubilizer for these smalll amounts of lipophilic ingredients.

[Doreen]

Good to see you’ve found your supplier! Elementis is aluminum chlorohydrate?

[Doreen]

Hi Luis,

I know this is an old post, but I am curious if you have found a supplier?
I am looking for a supplier as well.
Clariant sells Locron® (aluminum chlorohydrate) and Merck has a blend: RonaCare® Aluminum Chloride Hydroxide-Allantoin.

I am looking for a DIY supplier, but unfortunately these only sell potas alum… It works great as a deodorant though, but I miss the antiperspirant activity.

[Doreen]

And not to mention the risk of working with blood products in some sort of ‘clinic’… risky business. :smirk:

[Doreen]

@Belassi
In one of the links (researchgate) they state that the test subjects were: “treated exclusively with aloe vera gel”, so there was nothing for comparison. Perhaps a basic gel without aloe vera would’ve had the same effect.
In my opinion only a double blind placebo controlled trial is the only way here. This is were all the homeopathy nonsense also fails.

[Doreen]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” @EliseCortes
Thanks for the suggestions! I didn’t write the temps down and I can’t remember, but next time I will pay more attention to that!

[Doreen]

@gld010
That’s true, maybe I can try and skip the shea the next time, thanks!

[Doreen]

@ozgirl
I googled on ‘pilling’ and searched here on the forum, but apart from skincare routine advice, I can’t find any help about it.
Do you know some reasons that can cause it to happen? And how to prevent it?
Thanks! 

[Doreen]

@”Dr Catherine Pratt”
I really had no idea what that abbreviation meant! :joy:
Oh well, it wasn’t that much of a failure really, as long as I apply a single, normal layer of cream, there’s nothing wrong with it! :blush:

Just had to share this: :joy:

  

[Doreen]

@ozgirl
Yes, I think that is it! Thanks! :blush:

@em88
Ok, thanks will try that!

@”Dr Catherine Pratt”
?

[Doreen]

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/1070/rules-for-requesting-formulating-advice-help

How can we all better
help the community when asking (or answering) a question?

 1)            Please do not ask us to do your lab work
(or your research) for you. Do not request complete/finished formulations
unless you have already looked at the sources for that information and found
nothing helpful. If you show up out of nowhere and start asking for extensive
help, or otherwise demonstrate that you don’t want to do any work yourself, you
just aren’t going to get what you are looking for.  It is obvious most times when people have
tried to do research and just need a hand or when they are looking for someone
to do all the work for them for free.

2)            Introduce yourself in the introduction
thread before requesting information/help. The newer you are in our
community, the more necessary it becomes to explain your situation and why you
need our help, especially if you are asking for information that most chemists
could find on Google with a quick search.

3)            Do not DEMAND help. Being that rude is
a good recipe for getting nothing at all, ever. No one in this community is
getting paid to do this, and we have NO obligation to help you – or even to
respond to you at all. Asking nicely and politely works much better. Also,
those people that just take information but never have time to help anyone else
are eventually going to find this community much less helpful.  While many of us are happy to help each
other, and even first-timers, there has to be give and take.  Not all take.

4)            Please don’t ask questions privately.
The whole point of this community is to share our questions and answers. If you
do need to ask a private question, due to privacy/trade secret concerns, don’t
be surprised if the person you’re asking requests a consultants fee for an
answer.

5)            Please don’t hijack other people’s
discussions, but if you don’t understand something about that question or its
answers, ask us about it. If you want to ask anything that’s different than
the original question, START A NEW DISCUSION.

6)            Do NOT ask for an amount of help of the
kind and/or quality that would ordinarily require you to pay a consultant for.
Don’t request complete or detailed manufacturing procedures, Standard Operating
Procedures, equipment info and/or sources, etc. This is all info you will have
to pay a consultant for.  

[Doreen]

@Microformulation
I thought allantoin precipitate was different, like tiny shards? I can be mistaken though. The betaine is there to keep this amount of allantoin solubilized. It also dissolves faster. First I dissolve betaine in the heated water phase and after that the allantoin, a bit of stirring and voilà: it’s dissolved! (It also works with salicylic acid)
I didn’t know 1.5% is above allowable cosmetic levels? I assumed it was allowable up till 2%. Thanks for clearing that up! :+1:
What are your thoughts about the last part I wrote about betaine and allantoine being amphoteric?

@Gunther
The graininess is soft, could it be lipophilic substances?

[Doreen]

It’s supposed to be rich, with a high oil phase. (It’s for own use).

Would you have any idea what might be the cause for the ‘soft grainy particle’ problem? (It’s impossible (for me) to find the right word in English). It’s not like soaping, it’s different. Or do you think the high oil phase/content has to do with the problem?
It’s comparable to if you have put on a moisturizer that doesn’t go along with the foundation you use afterwards.

[Doreen]

@Perry
I agree. She does have great products however. And I think it’s for a reasonable price if I see all the pricey ingredients that are used. I do believe in general that most of the skin actives have a strong placebo effect.

@CedarWind108
I have read all the ingredient lists of the acidic BHA/AHA toners of Paula’s Choice.  Unfortunately I don’t see niacinamide in these lists. I do see panthenol, which I thought is also sensitive to acidic hydrolysis, but perhaps panthenol doesn’t convert into a potential skin irritant, like niacinamide does?

All the skin actives in PC BHA/AHA toners (pH 3.2 - 3.

Vitamins

Panthenol

Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate

Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate

Tocopheryl Acetate

Botanical Extracts

Camellia Oleifera & Sinensis Flower/Leaf/Stem Extract (Tea)

Vitis Vinifera Seed Extract (Grape)

Epilobium Angustifolium Flower/Leaf/Stem Extract (Willow Herb)

Avena Sativa Bran Extract (Oat)

Punica Granatum Fruit Extract (Pomegranate)

Lycium Barbarum Fruit Extract (Goji Berry)

Sambucus Nigra Fruit Extract (Black Elderberry)

Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract

Peucedanum Graveolens Extract (Dill)

Boerhavia Diffusa Root Extract (Red Spiderling)

Sea Whip Extract

Salix Alba Bark Extract (White Willow)

Salix Nigra Bark Extract (Black Willow)

Borage Officinalis Extract

Ulmus Fulva Bark Extract (Slippery Elm)

Lamium Album Flower Extract (White Nettle)

Arctium Lappa Root Extract (Burdock)

Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract

Camellia Oleifera Leaf Extract

Cucumis Melo Fruit Extract (Melon)

Glycyrrhiza Glabra Root Extract (Licorice) (and the potassium salt)

Isolated components

Tetrahydrodiferuloylmethane, Tetrahydrodemethoxydiferuloylmethane, Tetrahydrobisdemethoxydiferuloylmethane (from curcumin)

Epigallocatechin Gallate (EGCG, from tea)

Bisabolol (from chamomile)

Misc

Phytosphingosine, Phospholipids & Ceramides

Peptides

Allantoin (keep in mind that allantoin is amphoteric: it’s cationic under acidic conditions. The same is with betaine (trimethylglycine))

Adenosine

Arginine

Nordihydroguaiaretic Acid

Sodium Hyaluronate

Sodium PCA

Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate

Maybe this can come in handy, as it’s not always easy to find the recommended final pH for a product. Now we know we can use these at a pH of 3.2!

[Doreen]

@CedarWind108
I’m not sure if Paula’s Choice uses niacinamide in her AHA/BHA toners, but I do know that she uses a lot of actives in these toners. Full ingredients lists can be read on her website.

[Doreen]

@Belassi
:joy:

[Doreen]

@chickenskin
A candle making forum perhaps?

[Doreen]

@Microformulation
Ok, thanks! I will keep that in mind next time that I use it!