Dirtnap1
Forum Replies Created
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If you want to DM me I can get you a starting formulation.
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You will need a PEG Dimethicone for water based products. i.e. Peg-12 Dimethicone for example.
PVP will need to be disperesed in water if purchased in powder form. Will not hydrate in alcohol to my knowledge. PVP K-30 is what you will want for sprays as it is thinner than K-90.
It’s always best to test the pH of your finished products to determin if you need to adjust.
The amount of silicones and humectants will greatly reduce the holding power of your sprays. So you will have to formulate and test the amounts you choose to use.
Save you a little time-
https://www.gardenstatenaturals.com/product/pvp-va-64w-50-solution/https://www.gardenstatenaturals.com/product/k30-pvp-30-solution/
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Anything with water will need a preservative.
Essential oils/hydrosols can be allergenic/sensitizing in their own, and they can be costly/time consuming to make on your own.
Use percentage for any formula. PVP stays the same, you adjust the amount of water/base in percentage. PVP/VA would be a better choice for hold. PVP comes in powder form which you will have to hydrate, or pre-mixed usually 20% solution. Does not need to be neutralized unlike carbomers.
I would definitely take some time to research heavily before making any purchases. Many silicones will not mix together or with other ingredients.
Switchcrafty Monkey and many other online tutorials will help you, plus digging around here on this very forum.
Not all INCI names are created equal as well… -
Ceteareth 20 and beeswax will both thicken and start to solidify under 130. Try pouring around 140-150.
A paint stirrer on a drill may work. Stick blender works to incorperate in the initial mixing, but as you noted, you do get air trapped. So paint stirrer once everything has melted/blended.Try increasing Propylene Glycol a little.
Permulgin D (Cetearyl Alcohol, Ceteareth-20) may work to help emulsify a bit better than straight Ceteareth 20.
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What advice are you looking for exactly? Regarding the soaping effect on the hands, or regarding the consistancy of the product in the jar etc.?
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I’ve done a gel type like Chemist77 using pretty much the same other than the polymer used was both PVP/VA73, and/or G-100PR and also used Pemulan TR-1 as the thickener/modifier.
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Lubrizol has a fixative G-100PR polymer which allows a softer yet strong hold. Worth a sample to see if it works with your formula. I am also looking for that magic strong yet flexible hold type of product/formualtion.
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Not to mention, deionised water will start pulling anything it can from the air/container etc. So best to use a chelating agent for pure water as well.
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I’m sure most are stating a certain percentage, but in actuality, is much lower. Really hard to say how they are dosing for certain. I have worked with dispensiaries, and many are not honest… Could be 1000mg, but that was made in a batch of 5 gallons of oil etc. So actual dosage in a one ounce bottle for instance will obviously be less.
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Would merquat 3330 be a viable option for shine? I’ve been looking to add some gloss to a water based product I am formulating as well.
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Many INCI Ingredient lists are inaccurate or incorrect/missing ingredients/out of order in some way, especially coming from smaller companies. As they do not want reverse engineering of their exact formula.
Most clay products will have higher amounts of waxes/oils/binders compared to the clay itself.
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Try to pour around 140/ 60c. Your water thickener may be reacting with the clays causing it to thicken too much. Are you neutralizing the thickener?
Depending on formula, many big formulators fill in a heat tunnel to avoid skinning etc. Plus depends on humidity where you are filling, ambient temps etc. and when you cap your products.
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What temp are you melting and combining the phases at? Bring to at least 82 c and mix well. Cet 20/25 likes to clump when water is added until mixed from my experience.
I would contact your supplier and make sure it is what you ordered.
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Bringing this back to the top. I’m currently formulating a shaving silicone oil blend. What is a good thickener for silicones such as dimethicone and cyclomethicones?
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We should have a sub forum as there are many questions regarding them.
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Question for anyone making pomade. I have made quite a few, and seems if I add any humectant such as glycerin it drastically effects the hold from any fixative.
What is the true purpose for the humectant in this type of product? I have had success without it, but was curious.
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No problem. They can customize the fragrances for you as well. So if it’s not right you can also send them a sample of what you are needing and they can most likely duplicate it.
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Try Alpha Aromatics if you are in the USA. Ask for Lee Ann Patsen. She can assist you. They make quality fragrances.
800-295-5261 -
Yes, Understood. Will get formula when at the office.
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There’s no reason to unless you are letting it sit to process the next day. Only thing I would suggest is pre-wet the clay so it absorbs and disperses in the water when mixed. You need to blend the clay well in water before adding the oil phase, or it will clump. Then continue mixing .
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Try ceteareth-20
could possibly be the levels of glyceryl cocoate, but we would need percentages of your formula to help. -
You may also be able to use a little Glycol-Distearate. Will help give a powdery after feel as well.
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A simple 3-5gal double boiler would work as well.
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I usually pre-wet my clay first. Add the clay to the water phase. Then add this to the oil phase once both are up to temp. Emulsify/blend together.
I have had separation issues doing it the way you are in the past myself. -
I do use the slow mixer to keep things from settling. But I use another blender to disperse and help emulsify first. Then when things are liquid enough, we use the slow speed to keep things mixed and to help any trapped air bubbles to escape.