[devo2]

WOW - thanks gentleman  :open_mouth:
1. I have to have a broad spectrum bacteria test done. 
2. Want to cover myself and preserve the shelf life in summer. As “naturally as possible) Currently prob 4 months is shelf life with vit e.
2. Id like to make sure that my product passes . Start-up (teeny weeny) company here!!! 
3. Would love to hear YOUR professional opinion  
4. You mention mint. My other toothpaste consists of cardamom. Apparently even stronger than mint as it breaks through almost ALL bacteria cell membranes. 

I do use a fair amount of xylitol in my tooth-clay. - polyol? I find that the oil becomes rancid in warm summer months in South Africa.

Ingredients:
Mint

Calcium Carbonate*^, Bentonite Clay, Ceylon Cinnamon*^,
Bicarbonate Of Soda, Grapeseed Oil* , Himalayan Salt*, Green tea,

Aloe Vera^, Vit. E^.Mentha piperita* (Mint), Thymus Vulgaris* (Thyme), 

Eugenia caryophyllata(Clove)*

&

Spicy
Calcium Carbonate*^ Bentonite Clay Ceylon Cinnamon*^, 

Bicarbonate Of Soda^, Grapeseed Oil*^ , Himalayan Salt*^,

Green tea^, Aloe Vera^, Vit. E^. Citrus Aurantium Dulcis*(Orange)^, Elettaria cardamomum (Cardamom)
Bicarbonate Of Soda^, Himalayan Salt*^, Vit. E^*, Nutmeg^, Clove^*,

Have a lovely day.

[devo2]

Thanks for all the helpful information. I have just logged into the website to find out what I could use for my toothpaste (Also “natural” , in a glass jar. No water in actual formula…).

I noticed that’s a competitor of mine is using sodium lactate? I’m finding it hard to find a natural preservative. Would any of you darlings be able to name some that I can research? Would be much appreciated. Love and light

[devo2]

hi @Bill_Toge any idea on what is the limit for “courseness” to not cause pain ?

[devo2]

Thank you, will see what I can find regarding above information.  <3

[devo2]

hi there Pharma 
No I understand that chemicals come from China. As you can see I’m such a naturalist, that when I see photographs of Chinese lakes bubbling green and I think of the pollution I just cringe  , besides, I help to clean our Rivers, polluted with plastic, polystyrene and chemicals… just saying.

I’ve gone through almost 10 companies now, will try and find someone in China. Thank you for the tip on not using the bodybuilding products. I instinctively did not trust that!

thanks for the tip on products from India!

So what I have to look for is just called Arginine? Not L-Arginine or arginine bicarbonate? 
Aaaaaghhhh, fun and games. 

Do you make toothpaste?

[devo2]

Aaagh! I see! You took all your time in explaining this to me! Although, very helpful and thank you very much. What I meant is that the following ingredients I cannot find in Cape Town South Africa.

clover oil (this is clove oil right? The lovely essential oil which should be used max 0.6% )
potassium bicarbonate (no one has this  ????)
arginine (Is this a bicarbonate? An amino acid? wow!no one has this either?)

[devo2]

Sorry… my sentence above is ineligible ????.

It looks like ill be going down the same route as I did with finding calcium carbonate. ???? None of the companies that I contacted stock this. I know that youve helped me so much. Do you have any conpanies in mind that I can perhaps ask? 

[devo2]

Pharma said:

For oral care, always xylitol, no matter the origin (and, since birch sugar is an ‘official’ synonym, call it birch sugar no matter the origin ).

Xylitol for oral care isn’t just used because it’s sweet but for the whole rest tough it’s sweeter than erythritol. The only upper limit is what you can pack into your jars :smiley: .

If you want something against pain and dentine sensitivity, add clover oil, potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate, and/or arginine/calcium carbonate (Pro-Argin Technology by Colgate & Elmex uses 8% arginine). HERE some more reading.

@Pharma , would you use a toothpaste with any xylitol? I kinda would like to have a toothpaste for myself too, to remineralize my chapped teeth. i do appreciate the restructuring of the bame though! ???? Clever

[devo2]

id love to also understand / learn more about this….

[devo2]

That’s a valid remark regarding calcium carbonate, I will double check, but I know it’s from a reputable source which supplies this for toothpaste manufacturing. I think Pharma or somebody else on this group gave me the name of this manufacturer After I went through 30 manufacturers looking for food grade calcium…

That’s a great tip @Pharma, I will have to add that to my toothpaste. glad I don’t have to re-do the whole thing again, next time I send the labels to print I will add that it’s normal calcium carbonate as well as birch sugar

Really thank you for being so helpful, if you need any help with digital marketing,  I would not mind giving you tips on all the basics and then choices If you’d like to go further.

All the best 
  

[devo2]

Gawsh, now she is confused. I was thinkin of using erythritol ……? To end all this confusion.  

I use a LOT of it in my formula, about 38%!!! If you had a choice, which one would you use @Pharma ? Erythritol or xylitol (If you did not have birch xylitol).

I’m gonna reduce the sweetener. I guess I must. (Is there a max to use?)
I could reduce the bicarb to 4% too!!! To try to stop the tooth pain or sensitivity, but from what it seems is that conventional toothpastes just mask the pain with glycerine, yet it prevents remineralization.

Pharma, have you seen my packaging? Trying to go plastic free )) It’s such a F.u.N hobby. Just does not go off either as it’s an oil base.

https://www.faithful-to-nature.co.za/troo-brand

(At the bottom are my products)

[devo2]

hi all

Thank you, It is sold by third party companies and geting any response from them is virtually non-existent. 
@Pharma as usual you are extremely helpful. I will read the article. ????????????????????????????

I guess I would need to understand now, if using microbes/enzymes in the “fermentation process” (am I correct in saying this?) And GMO Is used in as manufacturing stage does it have the benefits to teeth that Birch trees were xylitol made without GMO has?

Birch tree Xyliyol is virtually non-existent here…

maybe I will find some answers in the PDF. Love and light.

[devo2]

hi @Pharma ! No wonder that I got so confused with whether it is synthetic or natural. From what you are saying I deduce that it does not matter where it comes from, but the process that has been used to manufacture it. 
Now I can probably ask the supplier which of the two/ or three methods apply to their xylitol? Right…? . Gosh, it’s not like I can ask them “is your xylitol approved by dental associations?! “lol…. hmmmm. present I’ve only been asking them where it comes from, China probably…

Just to put my mind at ease, It would not be wrong to make a Toothpaste of 98% xylitol then if it’s so good for our teeth right? In South Africa there is a brand called “apothecary”, With essential oil and some Olive oil. yummy.

[devo2]

hey beautiful Cath
thank you again 

My formula is definitely not a professional formula… Some toothpastes in USA Consist of only clay! Another one consist of hundred percent xylitol. Like you say, it really is the source that is important it seems. ????

I’m trying to find out if the xylitol comes from corn or something other than birch trees and  does it have the same effect on our teeth??? do you dental Association is around the world in doors xylitol which is from corn and other plants or not lol?

The way I see it is that’s my options are:
1. put something else in the formula to minimise the amount of xylitol. xylitol is very expensive as it is because it does come from China and is probably not the best source…. Euretha…something…?? 

2. something else that popped into my mind is to add some rice flour to the toothpaste. Good lord, I saw this in another toothpaste and I thought that starches were bad for your teeth… ????????
3. Maybe look for something other than bicarb to be gently polish the teeth then,  OR use less than 7%?
4. The clay is probably also not aluminium free. 

Is there anywhere that I can read on about the amount of xylitol which is good for you? Any sources out there which anyone can recommend? I normally look at pub med etc.

[devo2]

@Pharma. ????????????????????????????

You’re absolutely awesome. Thank you for your time spending explaining to me, your knowledge is priceless.????????

Yeah I agree on the Humans…Some better off driving in plastic I’d rather save the planet ????

[devo2]

Lastly… how DOES one use sodium citrate or citric acid with oil. No water in my product at all. ????????????????????????✨????
my toothpaste is in a glass jar, Capetonians are “greenies” trying to reduce plastic use. Humans are drowning in it. 

[devo2]

Awesome mister .urm could you help me and be more specific? % of water to my toothpaste? ????✨????

chemicalmatt said:

@devo2 there is no measuring of pH in anhydrous products. If you can disperse your product into a finite amount of water each time, you may then capture a relative pH. 

[devo2]

Pharma said: For sure Pharma…. will read what chelate means. I don’t want my oil to go rancid. I’m heating my oil as I mentioned. Will look at sodium citrate x

They might use it as chelate, not preservative. Sodium citrate would work as well.

Toothpaste usually comes with a very low water content and can hence be self-preservating.

[devo2]

Hi Pharma

Thank you! Lol! ???? is there a preservative I could look at?

I do see that other natural toothpaste companies are using citric acid….

[devo2]

Also I wonder how all the surfers that used Zinc Oxide for years and still do seem to do ok. From what I understand is that they use it by itself, not dispersed with/ in any other carrier oils.

[devo2]

Thank you @Agate, @Perry. Seems that in South Africa regulations are not that strict. Not like in the USA anyway. Our health shops stock many, many of these sunscreens. Interesting article.

[devo2]

@MarkBroussard
Oh you clever man!!! 

[devo2]

Oh crikey. @Herbnerd mentioned that size is different to hardness. ?

Does that mean that you need to test both? Does the “size” matter the same way abrasiveness does? ?

[devo2]

Hi @Herbnerd ? I’m not going to pretend I understand this. 

Where is OMYA, in which country? 

What  I understand from this is that up to 50% of the particles at smaller than 15uM , so where does that leave me with what size the rest of the 50% is …huh? ?

I asked them, they did not give me a clear answer. So I understand correctly, I need to take this to a lab to test it for abrasiveness? 

Perhaps I need to buy calcium carbonate from abroad….oh dear…

[devo2]

@Belassi, @Herbnerd, @Bill_Toge Thank you. Ordered a 5kg for dirt cheap. 

@”Dr Catherine Pratt” also many thanks for your professional opinion.

1. I have not found Silica to work with my brand. I know big companies use it.
2. Dr Pratt, I have not found a way to measure what 20uM is in size. My calcium is fine, almost like flour… My xylitol is the consistency of sugar. If per say I grind the sugar in a coffee grinder, would it be 20uM then? What is the diameter of sugar? 
3. Shea butter! Hmmmm yum

Merry Christmas and a very happy 2020 ?