[Chemist77]

And to top it up it says 4 weeks!!!!!!!

[Chemist77]

Once it is solubilized completely I don’t think it is going to help in viscosity, as for the price it is around USD 15 for a 500 kg quantity from BASF (bought it pretty recently for my hair gel as a fixative). 

There are few Chinese players too who sell it around USD 10 approx. 

[Chemist77]

But PVP is actually soluble in water and I am a little bit confused here if it is really going to help in thickening.

[Chemist77]

Maybe that was the part of Betaine they mentioned, why don’t you just pump in a little more soap and this would take the viscosity up. Not really sure if glycerin can help in gaining the viscosity, never ever heard about it. In fact glycols reduce the viscosity in some systems.

[Chemist77]

The salt will definitely break the soap emulsion that you have created by neutralizing fatty acids with the alkali, though you can try CAPB alone (which again has some salt content) and see how it works out for you. 

[Chemist77]

@Bill_Toge Can it be arrested (yellowing) by adding a little chelate or HS UV absorber?????

[Chemist77]

Thanks a ton for the info, sometimes we can’t try all the materials in the lab and this way we can share the knowledge, word of mouth 

Thanks again for your informative posts. 

[Chemist77]

So you are saying it’s a 20% APB dilution with 0.5% salt and you have a winner???? No nothing else except the fragrance???? And of course I suppose a little citric acid for buffering???

[Chemist77]

I suppose if optimized properly PEG-150 DS might be tamed but mine had Rewopol LI S80 and it was sulfate based shampoo (one of the customers was looking for sodium chloride free, ha ). Worked out great and there was no problem with PEG-150 DS 

[Chemist77]

How about these???

http://corporate.evonik.com/en/media/press_releases/Pages/news-details.aspx?newsid=42330

http://www.symrise.com/newsroom/article/symrise-launches-symsolR-pf-3-a-peg-free-solubilizer/

The one from Symrise has sodium chloride and a mix of surfactants so if your serum has any carbomer type thickener I suppose it won’t work though I have never tried it myself. 

[Chemist77]

@ ssdc

One word surface tension!!!!!!!

[Chemist77]

@mrylka That sounds just about it, can load high oil content as mentioned in literature.

[Chemist77]

I am guessing a solubilizer here, anyone for a chip in?????

[Chemist77]

http://www.dove.us/Products/Hair/Advanced-Hair-Series/Pure-Care-Dry-Oil-Shampoo.aspx

If you look at the fatty acid profile of the vegetable oils used you would notice that they have very high unsaturation and it seems that the formula has accepted well these 2 oils somewhere in the range of
0.10-0.25%, the formula itself is a simple one and I am supposing that it should give you a fair lead to start.

[Chemist77]

Bentone Gel VS-5 PC has to be used in a higher quantity here (let’s say 3-5% to start with) and this would give you the desired thickness, though I am not pretty sure about the whipped butter appearance. I have used in few of my foundations and it worked absolutely great though I was a big fan of Bentone Gel ISD V. I am guessing that the LOI you have mentioned has Bentone Gel VS-5 PC and with a little play of other thickeners and waxes you can achieve the desired properties. 

[Chemist77]

@Belassi I have used Silsoft SOHDR (Cyclopentasiloxane (and) Cetearyl Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer) from Momentive (previously GE Silicones) and it works great for that property which you want to have in the product. In fact I used in few products directly for matte look and in fact I saw it in one of the branded frosted bottle as a make up remover or some other product (can’t exactly remember). 

http://www.momentive.com/products/showtechnicaldatasheet.aspx?id=14449

You can check the below link also if that suits your region

http://www.grantinc.com/cosmetics/elastomer_gels/gels.php

[Chemist77]

Ah the crash cooling, we have it too and use for our emulsions and but as such have not seen an over the board viscosity shoot up. My emulsions are both ionics and non-ionics. Forgot to mention that our supposedly crash cooling involves pumping water to the hot emulsion and the temperature of water is around 35°C-40°C and it works great to give a good viscosity. 

[Chemist77]

I am not aware of this kinda technology but what we have read and experienced is that the thickness very much depends on the waxes and oils (including oil phase thickeners) along with the emulsifiers you choose and the thickener for water phase e.g. carbomers, cellulose or any other polymer. Lets suppose that even if your assumption works then what would happen when you bring down the temperature, it would get back to its most relaxed phase that is the natural phase. 

Of course it’s a different thing though if you are working and living under sub-zero temperatures.

[Chemist77]

How about Dry Flo PC, used it long time back in matte lipsticks and it did work great.

[Chemist77]

Novethix L10 is a HASE polymer so if your pH is around neutral then its fine otherwise thickening at low pH would be a big challenge and cumbersome. 

[Chemist77]

PEG-7 Olivate, it’s just a wild thought though but since you want to avoid silicones then why not some vegetable esters.

[Chemist77]

A little of any ethoxylated vegetable oil I suppose and if I am correct here. 

[Chemist77]

Versathix if you have Croda around or anything similar from any other supplier present in your region. 

[Chemist77]

How about Pilot Chemicals, they are also missing?????

[Chemist77]

BTW I used to have Aculyn 22 but again you know neutralization and alkaline pH for optimum efficacy but low pH for shampoo (all these hassles), I gave it up.