[Chemist5000]

@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ do you care to elaborate?  What is a better term to use than “whitening”?  I am familiar with a few non OTC raw materials for this purpose but not sure the concentration to use with either.  Can you address this all so?   Thanks

[Chemist5000]

thanks!!!

[Chemist5000]

Thanks for the answering!!!
Another question!!!

Would it be advisable to add a percentage more of another emulsifier to the gelling agent to ensure stability?

[Chemist5000]

Thanks so much!!!

[Chemist5000]

I assume the question should be asked “what is a benefit?”  Is the benefit suppose to be emotional or physical?

If you are asking for scientific proof or data this will be very hard to come by for most things that are suppose to be benefit…

The with and without testing is on a physical level.

Most people just want the knowledge they are at doing the bare minimum using something that is suppose to be good for them.  This is an emotional level.

Whether or not it ACTUALLY cures or corrects a concern is another story.

[Chemist5000]

most of the formulations for this company have products for the vagina that are pH 6 and above. Vagina pH is normally 3.8-5.0.  I am staying with in this range for all of my formulations.

The beads readily dissolve when rubbed. The purpose is just like in cosmetics…. to add something different to a product line and see if it sells.  If warming lubes doesn’t work why not try a cooling effect.  Somebody likes the beads b/c it is one of our best sellers. People like pretty lubes too. What ever works to achieve gratification sexually?  

I am not even sure if the concentration of covafresh is high enough to produce an effect at 1.2%

@johnb
I noticed with the natrosol/water premix the pH is normally around 6.3.  I neutralize it to above ph 8 to make it more viscous.  The lubes I am making should have some “body” and be not be thin/runny.  Citric acid at the end is use to bring down to 4.0-5.0.

[Chemist5000]

@MarkBroussard
I must commend you on your dedication to answer my question at 3am!

The earlier formula is a cooling lube from a previous chemist and has to be revamped.  The product is one of the our best sellers!  I have to take out glycerin, PG, parabens, to make it nicer to the vagina.  

Covafresh IV is being used as the cooling agent at 1.2%. Suggested use is between 2%-10%.

This is my formulation tell me what you think:
Water-66%
Natrosol 250 HHr - 1.20%
NaOH (10% soln) - 0.05
Propanediol - 26.5%
Covafresh IV - 1.2%
Panthenol Liquid - 0.01%
Chamomile Extract - 0.01%
Aloe Vera Extract - 0.01%
Water - 2%
Potassium Sorbate - 0.2%
Phenoxyethanol -1.0%
citric acid 50% soln - 0.1%
spheres(decoration) - 1%

[Chemist5000]

@johnb
the final product is a viscous gel that doesn’t readily flow but can be squeezed out of the container.  I am changing the ultrez 30 to Natrosol.  And do a pH adjustment to 4-5 with 50%citric acid solution at the end.  

I have ordered the other grade of Natrosol…enroute as we speak.  I am learning so much from doing all the lab batches and this site.  Thanks so much! 

I was going to take out the hydrovance out what do you suggest as a moisturizer?  I was going to keep the DC-3901 to help with the slip and feel.

[Chemist5000]

@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
Thanks for answering me!
I am reformulating this…I have lots of Natrosol 250HHR. I have made a few changes from the original formula but this is what I am working with…

water-63.3
carbopol Ultrez 30-0.2%
NaOh -0.5%
Hydrovance - 1.5%
Covafresh IV -1.0%
water -22.3%
carboxymethyl cellulose -0.09%
Propanediol -7%
Extracts (chamomile, aloe, ginseng) - 0.009%
Ascrobic acid - 0.003%
preservative - 1.0%
DC-3901-2.0%

[Chemist5000]

My bad! I forgot to mention I  need a “clear” product!

[Chemist5000]

makes sense… I am trying a few lab batches before I go home… let you know next week what happens!  thanks for the tip.

[Chemist5000]

Could I use Sepigel 305 in place of Simugel INS?

[Chemist5000]

@DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ

“If you use Ultrez 30 at PH 5 you are likely to get instability in storage as the former is borderline unless you buffer but even then anticipate stability problems.”
—so in the above example would I need to definitely pH 8.0 for stability?  Ultrez 30 is suppose to work at lower pH per the vendor.  

I don’t have a lot of room to be creative and use different chemicals. R&D on a shoe string budget make me very limited in my options. 

“Why not use a Simugel INS with xanthan gum-no ph worrries.?:”
If you don’t mind explaining why wouldn’t there be any ph worries?  I do have xanthan gum at my disposal. Is there anything else I can use besides Simugel INS?
Thank you for your input!

[Chemist5000]

thank you gentlemen!  

[Chemist5000]

Coconut Oil!
I have seen several products using near 100% coconut oil as a lube by itself.  If a preservative was added would that be better?  I have seen this also in the THC/CBD where coconut oil is infused and sold as a lubricant.  Any thoughts.

[Chemist5000]

@johnb
42% PG is correct.  I looked at a few competitors and they had PG in the top 3 ingredients.  I have noticed some solubility issues with using Natrosol 250 HHR.  I have ordered Natrosol H to experiment with too.  I will get some Klucel. Thanks for the tip!!!

[Chemist5000]

@MarkBroussard
Thank you so much!   The 20 Kg pilot is to make the formal stability and preservative challenge for the product.  Plus they want to send samples to a prospective customer.  

I was doing “quicky” stability (40°C and 55°C) during my formulation to give me idea if the product will separate.  I wasn’t going to use this as formal stability. Surprisingly all the big wigs are on board with doing formal stability since they have had so much issue with it in the past.  My company one of those companies that started out good ( approx 30 y/o) then changed owners (several times) and priorities. Ultimately vital procedures and quality GMP were dumped in lieu of making a buck.  Slowly they are now trying to get back on the wagon.  Still fighting to get some things back in place.  They are CHEAP!

We are catching all kinds of crap from the FDA with the 510K for one of our products.  Not really my concern at this moment.

Much like you know till the chemicals come in for the pilot….my next project is to do a clitoris gel and to reformulate another lube…

[Chemist5000]

Ok!

I have a working formulation for this water/silicone hybrid that has been on stability (40°C and 55°C) for close to a week with no separation. Of course, I don’t think I am out of the woods but for me I am jumping for joy. A few of my last formulations didn’t fair well at either temperature. I am waiting for chemicals to come in and I will be doing a pilot batch (20kg) in the week or so. I am super excited and nervous.  The compounding here is somewhat archaic and I am anticipating some “jimmy-rigging” to get this down.  Feel like alchemist or a bootlegger.

This is my first formulation!!!

[Chemist5000]

I am completely overwhelmed with all the information here! 

So basically the whole process is to open up blood vessels to allow more blood in the clitoris.  Is there anything that will just cause more sensitivity? Is widening the blood vessels is the main way the clitoris becomes more sensitive during sexual activity?

[Chemist5000]

@Belassi
where did you get that information?  A number of adult products still have it on their ingredient desks like my bench mark.  If it is I would try not to use it in the future.

Again thank you gentleman 

[Chemist5000]

Sorry for the typos:

Water - 32%
Natrosol 250 HHR - 0.55%
PG - 42%
(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90 - 12%
cyclopentasiloxane - 12.5%
Phenoxyethanol - 1%

[Chemist5000]

@johnb thank you for the tip.  is there anyway to adjust the current formulation for stability?  the benchmark is using these chemicals (including dimethicone- I am not using).

[Chemist5000]

Forgot the water in the previous post.  
Water -32.00% 

55%- natrosol HHR(this is all I have at the moment. ordering other variations)

42%-Propylene glycol

(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90—12%

Cyclopentasiloxane-12.50%

phenoxyethanol - 1.00%

[Chemist5000]

Okay folks!
The current formulation I made and put in the 40°C oven over the weekend.  It separated!  Should I increase the natrosol percentage to keep this homogeneous?  Any suggestions?

55%- natrosol HHR( this is all I have at the moment. ordering other variations)

42%-Propylene glycol

(cyclopentasiloxane/peg/ppg 20/15 dimethicone) Botanisil CD-90—12%

Cyclopentasiloxane-12.50%

phenoxyethanol - 1.00%

[Chemist5000]

@Belassi
That is ingenius.  You got my brain working on something… Thanks for the tip!