chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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The answer is a qualified YES. I am unfamiliar with “Ecogel” but must assume it is a gum-derived hydrocolloid? On another note: why make all these slurries and pre-gels? It baffles me why so many formulators do this. Simply change the order of addition and use the right mixing equipment and that technique is never needed again. Direct hydration into water, one at a time, side-sweep agitation engaging when the yield value increases. Much easier.
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Fascinating account there, Mike. You and your wife were indie-natural beauty before that was cool. I take it you are transitioning out of this personal care vortex now? Good luck to you in your next phase.
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Do you have a problem with carbomers for making gels? Sounds like those “essentials” may have residual elements such as geraniols or doped with phenoxyethanol. A carbomer gel would be unaffected.
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None that I can think of.
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Affirmative. Not compatible with most of those listed. Try Plan B.
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Looks like “as is” activity concentrations to me. Considering PQ-7 is always 10% active, 0.025% doesn’t do much conditioning there. I also question adding 3.0% PEG-10 dimethicone when 1.0% will do fine.
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First, let me agree - as usual - with @ketchito: polyquaternium-37 has different function and application than BTMS, so not to make a 1:1 correlation. On the other questions: yes, disperse PQ-37 into water first as it is difficult to hydrate when other materials are vying for water. Adding later will be MUCH more difficult unless it happens to be in the emulsion format like Salcare SC-96. Yes, PQ-37 will successfully allow oils & silicones, and much more than 10%, since it’s 3D structure in water makes for a Pickering effect with good apparent yield value; but…BTMS happens to be one of the best cationic emulsifiers for dimethicone. Finally, polyquaternium-80 has modest hair conditioning activity so I recommend 0.50% as floor. PQ-80 finds its best use in hair color retention formulations being a good film-former.
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We do not hand out final formulas here @psemwal2010 , we only share knowledge. SHould you want to obtain a starter formulation I suggest visiting websites of the major surfactant manufacturers, such as Stepan, Pilot, Synesqo, etc.
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Try Stabylen 30 from 3V Sigma USA or SpA depending on which continent you are on. Works same only pH range is a tad higher: 5.0 - 12.0
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Add a little bit of lactic acid to steady the pH at 5.0 - 6.0 and a bit of mannitol to inhibit redox reactions with light, oxidizers.
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Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate (ALS) is much milder than SLS, this is true. Same goes for the ethoxylates: ALES is milder on skin than SLES.
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BTAC is the most substantial behenyl quaternary ammonium salt simply because it has the highest charge-mass ratio. The other behenyl and brassicyl quats have weaker ones, simple as that. Now if the user maintains contact with the other ones for a longer time - 20 to 30 minutes maybe - they might match BTAC. The brassicyl quats have a sensorial finish not nearly as soft as the behenyls, so keep that in mind. That could be the source of the “chalky” response.
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I am with gordof here: why so much EDTA? It doesn’t make any sense. Is there a decimal point missing? Also not especially safe orally.
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This formula needs a hydrotrope with all that anionic surfactant and glucoside, glucamide as ketchito points out. Try disodium cocoamphodiacetate or dipropionate - or sodium xylene sulfonate if you can bear that on your label - at low concentration and you may resolve this. Also consider which polymer size of Polyquaternium-10 used. The common one for cleansing products is 400, but if you happen to be using 30,000 well…fugettabottit.
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Besides the helpful advice from graillotion and Mike, all legit, I’ll add that addition of lower HLB polyglyceryl fatty esters are used in foods and cosmetics to solve this problem of crystallization. Try adding some polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate to the mix and find out.
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Affirmative, if your formulation is an invert system such as w/o or w/Si then you’ll see that separation. All of these invert emulsions are intrinsically unstable at elevated or reduced temperature conditions. I’ve had many that were stable for many years at RT though.
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As said by @ketchito You will find that acrylic disruption especially with divalent salts such as Mg, Ca as found in “l’eau marin”. Also, the acrylic opacifiers have ranges of pH compatibility and you must always add into water first before anything else, never last.
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@Greglar the formulation you refer to may actually be a cross-polymer of cyanoacrylate/acrylic acid and that “soy” material could refer obliquely to the x-linker used. Essentially it is Super-Glue. This likely involves peroxide radical-initiated polymer synthesis, not simple mixing. Be advised of this if results from mixing are not favorable.
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Sounds like an oil or similar lipid might have been added without pre-solubilizing in a surfactant cocktail. You used some good ones there attempting to mitigate but in my experience once that oil is dispersed into the carbomer gel it will not solubilize afterward. The other possibility is somebody added a cationic-charged material before the carbomer was neutralized. BTW, those cross-links are strong, it takes many months or years before they break down depending on how much UV exposure your gel gets. This is why we’ve always added benzephoenone-4 into clear carbomer gels for retail presence; 0.05% is plenty also.
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Menthol will dissolve directly into mineral oil or any other paraffinic. Plan your order of addition accordingly.
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@Fekher first thing is CONGRATULATIONS! You discovered something unique and thanks for sharing. Now, get to that patent attorney office pronto my friend! OK, there is some “prior art” involved here. The fatty acid 12-hydroxystearic acid derives directly from castor oil hydrolysis. This is a known gellant for apolar oils such as mineral oil. It works on medium polarity oils too but not as well. What is surprising is how that castor oil underwent hydrolysis - alkali are used for this industrially - yielding all that 12-hydroxystearin. Even so, you got a pretty thick substance with only 1.0% castor oil too. Pretty cool, dude!
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@LabGuy It must be restated here that virtually ALL invert emulsions are entropically unstable. You will generally find thermodynamic instability at 45C sooner or later with these creations, so don’t feel bad when it happens. Having said that, you were wise to include that BENTONE Gel to stabilize the continuous phase. The issue appears mainly in your water phase. Add much more NaCl, 3.0% will do, and reduce that Tween 80 in half. This may help but your chief problem here is the low level of water in there! Doing the math here and excluding the metal insolubles there is ~16% water and ~60% oils. Not good. You will need much more to keep this viable so some of that oil phase has to go. You may try increasing the Abil EM90, as higher the ratio of oil: water inside, the greater level of w/o emulsifier required. Honestly at this rate I would just forego a water phase entirely and go to an anhydrous system serum. Q.s. with esters and get on with your day.
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@AMS It is not clear what is described by “PPG” or even “PEG-40” and those polyols (we know what those acronyms mean) are your key thickening ingredients. E.g. PPG-15 Stearyl Ether + PEG-40 Stearate: now we have something to go on. That combo would produce a nice emulsion, BTW, one that is oxidatively stable as well. You might also use a Poloxamer PPG/PEG block copolymer to achieve 1000 cps sustainably. But alas…
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I cannot recommend this program enough. It is the longest-lived MS Cosmetic Science program (USA) in existence for a reason.
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@Aanchal If we assume CATC is cetyltrimethylammonium chloride (CETAC as we know it) the means of thickening that low solids formulation is NaCl, just plain sodium chloride salt. Add into the batch as a 20% solution at 40C and you will be surprised how much viscosity you will gain. This is the reason all those inexpensive hair conditioners on the market appear to be much richer than they are.