[Cafe33]

From my limited experience, adding some Cetyl Alcohol to creams already containing high levels of Cetearyl alcohol improved slip and glide without question. 

I recently acquired some Stearyl Alcohol, I am assuming it will be somewhat draggy. It is contained in some of the products I am trying to reverse engineer, not sure why yet.

[Cafe33]

Okay so I have the full info. Website is http://www.bioage.com.bz (seems to be down?)

Here is the INCl for the serum:

Aqua, Glycerine, Disodium EDTA, Dimethyl MEA, Polysorbate 80, Hydroxypropyl Guar, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Aminomethyl Propanol, Xanthan Gum, Panthenol, Hyaluronic Acid, Silanetriol, Butylene Glycol, Sorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Caffeine, Palmitoyl Carnitine, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Metabisulfite, Tocopherol, Trisodium EDTA, Sodium Citrate, Biotin, Methylsilanol Hydroxyproline Aspartate, Sodium Sorbate, Salicyclic Acid, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Glycereth-7 Triacetate, Ethoxydiglycol, Cichorium Intybus(Chicory) Root Oligosaccaharides, Caesalpiria Spinosa Gum, Gluconolactone, Parfum, Butyl Methylpropional, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Citronellol, Coumarin, Hexyl Cinnamal, Hydroxyisohexyl-3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Limonene, Linalool.

It is bizzare because everything else seems to be somewhat in order. They even list fragrance allergens as well. If they were trying to mislead with the order, wouldn’t they put Cichorium Intybus(Chicory) Root Oligosaccaharides, Hyaluronic Acid or something else that seems to be active instead of EDTA?

Also the cream follows the same style:

Aqua, Disodium EDTA, Sodium Acrylates Copolymer, Lecithin, Caprylyl Methicone, PEG-12 Dimethicone/PPG-20 Crosspolymer, Tocopherol, Sodium Polyacrylate, Dimethicone, Cyclopentasiloxane, Trideceth-6, PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone, Cyclotetrasiloxane, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Glycerin,  Anadenanthera Colubrina Bark Extract, Potassium Sorbate, Parfum,   Butyl Methylpropional, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Citronellol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool.

They are most likely using Acqua Bio by Chemyunion http://www.chemyunion.com/en/skin-care/acquabio-1

INCL

Water (and) Glycerin (and) Anadenanthera Colubrina Bark Extract

So again, I find it a little unbelievable that they would mess up the order of the INCL especially when it is not in there favor. I also find it hard to believe since they are using fairly sophisticated ingredients. I have also found some internet literature/opinions on using EDTA for anti aging.

Anyway, very curious about opinions on this.  

[Cafe33]

Maybe I spoke too soon about the Lutrol F 127? From my quick research it is only a rheology modifier. 

Yes its only a small amount of Alcohol but the pH also seems to be very low. 

[Cafe33]

Hi Alex777, I am also developing a mouthwash but only for personal use. Here is a formulation from Handbook of Pharmaceutical Manufacturing, Volume 3, Liquid Products by Sarfaraz K. Niazi. 

Material Name	Qty/L (g)
Menthol	10.00
Eucalyptus Oil	10.00
Cremophor RH 40	40.00
Saccharin sodium	4.50
Sodium citrate	2.00
Citric acid	5.00
Lutrol F 127	50.00
Ethanol 96%	67.00
Sicovit colorant	QS
Water	801.00

Lutrol is a gelling agent. Notice that they only use around 6.5% Alcohol which is low compared to some of the formulations I have seen at 20% and more. I have not tried this formulation so I do not know what the mouthfeel is like but I certainly appreciate that it is a preserved with nothing more than low alcohol and pH.  

I have also noticed many formulations which include synthetic and natural bisabolol which I found interesting, Hope this can help you. 

[Cafe33]

I use 60% BTMS-25 and 10% Cetyl Alcohol. That works out to  

10% Cetyl Alcohol 
15% Behentrimonium Methosulfate
45% Cetearyl Alcohol 

I am using ingredients that are local to me. 

You need oils/esters that spread well and apply quickly such as Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides. I use Hydrogenated EthylHexyl Olivate as my main Oil which applies very fast.  I round it off with Jojoba oil and Mango butter. I would like to use Abyssinian oil but it would not be worth the hassle of acquiring it, so I use ingredients that are local to me. The bar is very hard yet it applies product quickly. 

[Cafe33]

I think you should include some Cetyl Alcohol in order to decrease drag. I use BTMS-25 as my base for conditioner bars and 10% Cetyl Alcohol. It also seems like you have a lot of oil and butter in your formulation. 

[Cafe33]

I personally found that the economy scales Uline sells are very high quality.  I think they are only in North America, not sure.

[Cafe33]

V-blenders create homogeneous mixes provide the particles are of similar size and that the blender is not overfilled. Also, there is a tendency to over mix with V-blenders and that can be detrimental and lead to particle segregation.  Also some mixes might need a certain increased cohesion so they stay together properly. Silicon Dioxide was a very useful additive when I use to manufacture supplements I must say.

[Cafe33]

Is your customer concern about the fragrance staying on the hair? Is that why you are using an absurdly high level of fragrance? If so your selection of fragrance needs to change. 

[Cafe33]

Are there any situations where polyquat 7 is superior or does polyquat 10 eclipse it completely? 

[Cafe33]

There are lubricants that use silicones I believe. You can also find ones which are a mix of Polyethylene Glycol, Glycerin, PEG-8 and Hydroxyethylcellulose.

[Cafe33]

What I have is Tinogard TT, not TS (made a mistake).

Tinogard HS - 43USD for 60g
Tinogard TL - 13USD for 60g
Tinogard TT - 4.10 USD for 60g 

Keep in mind that I am in Mexico. I purchased these from a re-packer.

[Cafe33]

BHT is not expensive. I can purchase a kilogram for around 9 USD with the MOQ being a single Kilogram. I can also purchase BHA but at around 8 times the price of BHT.

[Cafe33]

Yesterday, I received Tinogard TS and Tinogard TT (Benzotriazolyl Dodecyl p-Cresol) from my supplier. I am interested in any experiences from members here. I will be running test batches of different products in the near futures 

[Cafe33]

I am in no means an expert but I am still on the fence about essential oils. The consensus from experts on this forum seems to be that EOs are simply fragrance compounds with no other benefits and potential skin irritants. 

I recently formulated a Syndet Facial bar with 0.4% Tea Tree Oil which is touted for its anti bacterial properties and it left my face with red patches and irritated for a while. I think they are complex compounds and should be investigated thoroughly before being added to a product. 

[Cafe33]

Tetradibutyl Pentaerithrityl Hydroxyhydrocinnamate

Antioxidant, has a mild scent 

[Cafe33]

Hi Maryvel, I am living in Mexico and I found the ingredients here to be of high quality. As far as the Lavender, I think you are correct, I have noticed a difference. I recommend the lavender from Essential Wholesale in the USA. Getting through customs was not great because they insist on using UPS which in my opinion is a very bad idea for Mexico.  

[Cafe33]

I never start with that high of an EO level when adding it for the first time. Most product problems I have encountered are related to EOs.

[Cafe33]

Thanks for the clarification. I was always terrible at titration in school. Always lost patience near the end and added slightly too much.

[Cafe33]

Thank you for the chart Jemolian. 

So neutralizing 1.00g of Carbopol with 4.50 g of l-Arginine… Is that what the neutralization ratio means? 

[Cafe33]

What about - best for acne prone skin

[Cafe33]

What do you mean H2SO4 is illegal in your country? There is no way you can outlaw such an important industrial chemical. Buy it with the proper paper work. You won’t need much for fischer esterfication considering it is a catalyst.

[Cafe33]

Do customers believe that a long LOI means a product is more effective??

[Cafe33]

I dont make perfume but my interest in scents lies in making fragrances that  attach to hair and skin and have staying power. It is not easy considering that my products are used in the shower. I’ve had to study micro encapsulation of fragrances, and I am about to begin my trials with various polymers.    

I found basenotes.net is a good start but with very little real information. 

Make yourself a list of interesting fragrance compounds and include all information necessary such as logP, vapour pressure, mol weight, flash point… etc 

http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com

Another excellent ressource

http://eindex.givaudan.com/eindex/

I also believe (and I could be wrong) that fixatives are not as crucial as I initially thought at the beginning of my research into fragrances. I think the nature of the base note is more important. 

Anyway, if you do want to look at fixatives, heres a starting list for you

Glucam 20
Isopropyl Myristate 
Benzyl Benzoate 
Benzyl Salicylate
 

[Cafe33]

Some companies will allow you to pick up NaOH and avoid the shipping hassle.