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I don’t really have the knowledge to contribute further. I’m quite surprised actually that you were able to dissolve the fragrance in alcohol to any extent; all the fragrances I have are nonpolar and alcohol is polar. They don’t mix. And I know nothing about PEG-40 HCO. If I were trying to do the same thing I would probably use polysorbate-20 to dissolve the fragrance and then add that to the alcohol. That’s what perfumers do, I believe.

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Added 5% of sodium cocoamphoacetate. As expected this improved the foam. Thickness pretty much unaffected. Have some testers now of this so I’ll try it out.

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Watch out for Chinese glassware. In my experience it is very thin and breaks easily.

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Results:

water  63.8%

SLES      12.5%

CAPB     12.5%

Lamesoft 1.5%

Tea Tree Oil 0.1%

Salt for thickening 2.5%

I set the betaine equal to the main surfactant and added salt until I had a really thick consistency. Adding the Lamesoft improved both consistency, thickness, and foam.

As I expected, this combination produces small-bubble foam, it lacks the large bubbles I also like to see. I’ve got the surfactants at 25% now (not including the Lamesoft, also acts partially as a surfactant) so I think I will try adding some sodium cocoamphoacetate to see if I can get the large bubbles back. Not very impressed with the foam from this one, it is nowhere near as foamy as the ALS version.

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Interested in this, too, but can’t comment.

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@Milliachemist thanks a lot, I didn’t know that ALS is a more effective cleanser than even SLS. That explains the reports of dryness, I think.

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Temperature can have a large effect on solubility.

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The CAPB is the cocoamidopropyl betaine. 

I wish I could get ALES here but unfortunately it isn’t available. 

I think I’ll try the SLES instead, but I will have to reformulate because the thickening will be different. Shouldn’t take long though. 

I like ALS because it is relatively mild and gives big bubbles rather than the creamy type foam you get with betaine and to some extent the ethoxylated surfactant. I hadn’t bargained on it actually being too efficient. I guess my two alternative approaches might be:

a) change out the ALS for SLES and recalibrate for thickness.

b) reduce the %ALS by adding a third surfactant, say sodium cocoamphoacetate, an amphoteric that plays well with ALS or SLES and CAPB. Problem here will be getting sufficient thickness without having to add an expensive thickener.

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@Nasrins if you study the MIC levels then 0.1% matches that. And testing on the panel shows that even 0.2% is a little too high. 5% would be for a pharmaceutical type to kill lice (and would be very expensive since TTO is $180/kilo)

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Very good points @Ozgirl. Here in a major city in Mexico I can get most but not all ingredients of interest. I’d definitely begin by investigating supplier availability. The problem with using any publicly-available formulation is that they invariably contain some particular manufacturer’s pet substances which, naturally, you can’t easily find.

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I’d say it’s possible. Please note, though, that it isn’t going to be easy. Emulsion chemistry and surfactant chemistry are very different from usual reaction-based chemistry.

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I have been asked to formulate and manufacture a number of all natural products in bulk

 - “Danger, danger, Will Robinson!” I hope you’ve discussed preservation with the client. Too easy to imagine a delay in transit and poor transit conditions producing a 5 gallon bucket of slime at the destination.

I agree with Bob regarding margins. Basically I go the other way: retail at 6x costs ( 83% margin) then deduct distributor margin (say 50% max) and we get 33% margin, where margin = profit/selling price as a percentage.

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I wouldn’t fancy calculating the required quantities of each of the three bases, myself! Maturing … yes, I recall that a leading (French) brand of shaving soap in pots, “matures each pot as it it were a fine cheese”.

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Yes; ordinary carbomers such as 940 or Ultrez are useless in shampoos when you want an acidic pH. I can’t get on with Aqua SF-20 though. Made many experiments to establish this “back acid thickening” and it just was a nightmare. The supplier’s formulator shares my opinion. Also the damn bubbles make filling a horror, have to do it strictly by weight, looks like a bottle of hair gel - ugh.

So in my sulphate-free shampoo I use Glucamate VLT. It improves the preservative system, gives great hand feel, if anything it improves foam, and it’s easy to use. The hand feel with carbomer is crappy in comparison.

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My current systems are:

Skin creams (o/w emulsions): 0.5% parabens, made up of 60/40 methyl/propyl. Never had an issue.

Skin gels (oil free): Spectrastat at 0.7%. Seems pretty effective although we have only been using this about 6 months so far.

Shampoo: 0.5% potassium sorbate and pH = 5. No issues, works fine.

Conditioner: 0.5% potassium sorbate, pH = 5. I have to say that a shelf life of around 6 months with this, due no doubt to the relatively large amount of lipids. I am considering what to do to improve shelf life.

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I gave up on carbomers in shampoo. Besides the nightmare of using it, it’s almost impossible to get rid of the bubbles.

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“One as simple as adding carbomer in the form of Aqua SF-1 to the formulation.” (my emphasis)

I am going to die laughing if you use terms such as “simple” in the same sentence as “Aqua SF-1”!

I take it you haven’t been down that road yet. . . Nearly drove me mad before I finally called the formulator at the supplier. “Hahaha. Yes, back-acid thickening. Hahahahaha! Me too!”

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Am I correct in thinking that this Totarol is an essential oil similar to Neem, Tea Tree … ?

I did a little research and the described properties sound similar.

Annoyingly, it is hard to find MIC comparisons because people have tested them against quite a lot of organisms but not on both. MIC in microgm/mL

I decided to see if I could compare tea tree oil with Totarol. A few matches:

Organism . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MIC(tto)   MIC (Trl)

Enterococcus faecalis  . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.5-0.8      2

Klebsiella pneumoniae  . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.25-0.3      >32

P. Acnes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05-0.6      3.9

Staph. Aureus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  0.5-1.25     1.5

The MIC is the minimum concentration required to stop growth in 24 hours. From the data above and other data I Googled, it appears to me that TTO has a higher antibacterial activity than Totarol. Of course there are many other factors to consider such as odour, solubility, dispersability, ability to destabilse emulsions or gels, etc etc etc.

I am occasionally tempted to try systems such as (eg) TTO, Propiolis, etc. along with the usual precautions ably mentioned by @Microformulation. But then I glance over to the long term test shelf where products sit that are over 4 years old, and still in clean condition, and think… no.

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How about an industrial size microwave? I find that microwave is a very efficient way of getting a batch up to temperature.

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OK I see now. First, I suggest using KOH not NaOH for a shaving soap.

Anything that messes up the pH will cause the soap to decompose into snot. Mineral oil for me would be an absolute nope!

I suggest researching your profile for the fatty acids because it is perfectly possible to formulate an excellent shaving soap with good slip using only natural oils and no additives except fragrance. I believe though, that this is not the forum for such enquiries - a soap makers forum will provide a lot more information.

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because of the high ph level (9-10)

this is a natural soap based product? otherwise why a high pH?

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how to make organic lotion 100% and shelf life one year is it possible

not in my opinion

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Conjunto Lar has Dermawhite NF LS9410, http://www.bsibusiness.com/uploads/product_ls/pdf/84_pdf.pdf is the manufacturer’s puff for it. Any comments, guys? I don’t know the price as yet.

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We already use shea butter in our skin creams which contains retinoids, and does provide lightening and age-spot fading; but I am looking for something more rapid and more suitable for spot treatment (small areas up to a few cm across, dark patches, that kind of thing).

I used to have a link to a Far East manufacturer of advanced bio components (such as human growth hormone etc) that have very advanced ingredients for this, but I can’t seem to find it.

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Don’t forget the logistics of putting the increased batch size in the containers.