[belassi]

Neither of those is available.

Well, I am rejecting that formulation because it is irritating. Probably the SLES. After using sulphate-free shampoos for years I find SLES too irritant.

So I am going to see if I can get a blend called Plantarem APB, a mixture of ALS, ALES, DEAL and Lauryl Glucoside. Failing that I will see if I can develop a low-sulphate version.

[belassi]

This is a sulphate-free shampoo by the look of it. If we can believe the LOI, those “soap” components would be trace amounts. Notice that stearic acid is is below ‘parfum’ and sodium hydroxide is also there, well, those two combine to make sodium stearate. 

The glycinate looks like a very nice surfactant.

The Polyacrylate is the thickener.

[belassi]

In what product type? You haven’t said.

[belassi]

In Saudi I didn’t find it too difficult to remove methanol and isopropyl with distillation - obviously the ketone would be the one that stops that. 

[belassi]

From this web site - I would need to research this claim. 

Sulfates like SLES (Sodium lauryl Ether Sulfate) are potent detergents that have been shown to harm the developing structure of the eye in young animals. This raises concerns regarding ocular damage in both 

infants and younger children. SLES and SLS have been shown to be absorbed and retained in 

the eyes, liver, and brain of undeveloped animals for up to 5 days longer than in adults. 

Based on this evidence and on the fact that SLS can be absorbed anywhere through the skin, 

exposure with sulfates in shampoo may cause abnormal development of the eyes in younger 

animals. 

[belassi]

You’re welcome.

I just found a probable reason why ALES is not available in my area. Our shade temperatures sometimes exceed 45C in summer and for much of the year 33 - 38C is not uncommon. I’ve just discovered that ALES breaks down (decomposes) due to hydrolysis over 40C. So I am currently looking to see which of these Lubrizol products might be available:

Sulfochem ES-1260 (sodium laureth-12 sulphate)

Sulfochem TD-3 / TD-365DXS / TD-365US (sodium trideceth sulphate)

[belassi]

I’ve no idea what’s in the fragrances and it is a nuisance.

[belassi]

I should be getting opinions from the product testers this coming week, so I will try to post a resume. I have been using it myself so I do have a personal opinion. It leaves the hair very silky and shiny but after about 12 hours it feels a little too conditioned. Maybe reduce the H-81 to 1.5% - yeah, thinking about it, the Lamesoft is also a conditioning agent. And increase the calendula to 1%.

[belassi]

For me, the cost is not a lot. I am constantly exploring the market and experimenting with new products, so for me, formulation is not a “cost” as such, in terms of time.

Let’s take an example. I want to develop a new shampoo. First I identify the target market and I examine the market survey figures to determine the $$ size of the market and % of total shampoo market.

Having identified the properties I want to put into the new shampoo, I design a preliminary formula, experiment with it for a while and then make a couple of Kg and test it on the product testers. So far my costs are < $50.

Once I identify and refine the LOI and procedure, I’ll make a batch of say 5Kg, get 100 labels professionally printed, and test it on the Sunday market stall to see what public reaction is like. So, products can be developed and market-tested at quite low cost.

[belassi]

Or you could try Dehyton AB-30 as an alternative. It is a betaine. More conditioning than CAPB; it has an additional N+ as far as I recall.

[belassi]

I think I am going to need rather more convincing than that, bearing in mind that just about every manufacturer in the world uses it in both sulphate and sulphate-free shampoos.

[belassi]

CAPB “allergen of the year”? You can find it in every shampoo! Who called it that?

[belassi]

SCAA costs about three times as much as CAPB. It is thick versus thin. Often gives thickening effects. Produces better foam than CAPB (larger bubbles). They are both extremely mild.

[belassi]

@Ruben - I’d never heard of that! Will check.

[belassi]

I have heard that pet shampoo unlike human shampoo should be neutral (pH=7) but otherwise similar. Keep it simple to avoid allergic reactions. I’ve studied the LOI of several pet shampoos and they are quite simple. I wouldn’t use SLS though, too irritating. A sulphate free would be best but would of course be more expensive.

[belassi]

Thanks for that. Sent an enquiry to them.

[belassi]

Ah, I see. I don’t use that much though. I keep it in the refri because I assume that oxidation won’t be as fast at a lower temperature. 

[belassi]

@Bobzchemist:  > excellent!

[belassi]

Actually I am not trying to be nasty or anything, I’m trying to find a way to say this diplomatically, my Aspergers makes this hard work. Have you given careful thought to preservation? The answer to my question above, is “digestion” and clay is a well known risk for bacterial problems. If you have all this organic material as well, in partially digested form, well, it’s going to look like a banquet for any organism that happens on it. I don’t think a simple preservative would be up to the task.

[belassi]

Other formulations which contain egg yolk are stable at high temperatures. The viscosity issue was only with this particular ghassoul shampoo batch.

Let’s look at the chemistry. The yolk proteins denature between 65 and 70C, which is heat and hold temperature, so you’ve basically got boiled egg in your shampoo. Then you add the clay. This is generally speaking an alkaline material (I have several here and some are so reactive as to cause heating of the skin). So, you have organic material in intimate content with alkaline minerals, what do you suspect might happen?

[belassi]

Egg yolk??? Sounds like a Lush product! Obviously egg yolk is going to completely change as the proteins denature with temperature.

[belassi]

There are people in my city promoting “alkaline water”. It cures everything. pH = 8.

I asked how they got it to pH 8 and was given a big story about ionisation.

They gave me a bottle as a free sample. I took it home.

The next day I had a client visit me. He is a food producer - in charge of cold meats and sports drinks for a large group. He spotted the bottle and said, “How come that is 700mL? We wanted to use that bottle type but it is only 600mL.”

I immediately weighed the contents. 600mL! So, wrongly labelled. Then I tested the pH. As expected, it was 6.7

[belassi]

 Silver Citrate and Citric Acid

Sounds as if it will turn black with light exposure, and be very expensive?

[belassi]

@Bri: What is “regular” soap and water?

In our grandparent’s time soap was made by saponification resulting in a product with pH=10, which is antibacterial for sure!

Unfortunately modern bar soap is merely solid surfactants and has no antibacterial activity to speak of, and that’s what most people use these days. That in my opinion is why soap manufacturers started putting antibacterial components into their soap.

Not that I am advocating a return to cold (or hot) process soap. It is lovely stuff (we make it) but it has big drawbacks for supermarket type sales: the glycerin tends to make it ‘sweat’ and it has a definite shelf life unlike synthetic soap.

[belassi]

Should be OK. So you already have caprylyl glycol in it.